Fog!?

[StormFuror]

So I have read a few posts here in the forum about GO. Before I was invited to the beta the last time I played CS:S was back in 2005.

What Fog is everyone talking about? I'm guessing this is some kind of visual effect for fog. I have a GTX 570 and have all the settings maxed out. And I don't see no fog or notice it to the degree that everyone is complaining about. Or am I not understanding what this "fog" is that everyone is talking about. Can someone please help me understand? lol

I'm no CS elitist but I have been enjoying the Beta and I think its more fun than stupid CoD. Also, I rather enjoy Arms Race(another part of the game that I see complaints of and that its too much like CoD).

[CoolPrizes4Free]

type "map de_dust2" in console.

Now type into console "fogui" and then check the "override" checkbox.

I personally don't mind. idgaf about it.

[187eR]

when did u enter the beta? there was an update on friday that removed alot of the fog

[perestain]

What the fog?



No seriously, watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXyH0_JqxbI

[Roessler89]

Originally Posted by perestain

What the fog?



No seriously, watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXyH0_JqxbI

I don't think that's the best example. Yes it clearly shows the difference between fog on and off, but the commentator talks about how he "cannot see a thing" when picking mid. I don't know about you, but I reckon he needs glasses, I can still see clearly straight through mid in that video.

[sepp0]

Originally Posted by Roessler89

I don't think that's the best example. Yes it clearly shows the difference between fog on and off, but the commentator talks about how he "cannot see a thing" when picking mid. I don't know about you, but I reckon he needs glasses, I can still see clearly straight through mid in that video.

Well, he's obviously just making a point. I can see across most areas of most maps, but everythink is sharper and clearer with PP off and no Fog imo.

[cookiebisquit]

On trainshort when you come from ct and walk to the end where you can look at t spawn you CAN'T see T's because of range. The serieusly disappear. Same goes for windows on lake and safehouse. When standing on alot of range windows become grey and solid. Even when you zoom in. Useless

[perestain]

Originally Posted by Roessler89

I don't think that's the best example. Yes it clearly shows the difference between fog on and off, but the commentator talks about how he "cannot see a thing" when picking mid. I don't know about you, but I reckon he needs glasses, I can still see clearly straight through mid in that video.

It does not matter the slightest what you eventually see if you take as much time as you please to look at it.


If you play seriously you only have split seconds to spot, identify and aim. Reaction time is usually about 0.2 seconds upon instant spotting. Reducing visibility with fog and PP increases the time you need to "be sure" someone is there easily by a multitude of reaction time.

This is a game altering change, since it is suddenly not about better training and reflexes, but about whose eyes happen to be better aligned with the spectral difference of the greenish blob he tries to identify as enemy or prop.

Duels suddenly depend less on skill and training, and more on genetics.

- 10% of all males are colorblind, and will have massive disadvantages if they switch to CS GO as it is. This is totally unneccessary.

- It is very frustrating to only lose a duel even if you have much better aim just because you simply couldnt see a guy you are supposed to see because of lacking game graphics. The game is NOT FUN THAT WAY. This has happened all the time when I still played the beta and is absolutely unacceptable for CS as a sport. This is not CAMO STRIKE!


Visibility is very much a dealbreaker, people simply have not trained aiming hundreds and thousands of hours to then play a game where it doesnt matter since you cannot see ♥♥♥♥ (on a timescale where it actually counts).



tl,dr:

Reduced visibility makes quick spotting harder. For some people it is worse, for some its less of a problem, depending simply on their genetics (the absorption spectra of the little cones in their eyes to be precise).
If spotting takes significantly longer than aiming (which is ~0.2 seconds), then aiming becomes an almost irrelevant skill. The game then is a farce from a competitive perspective, since training does not pay off. It is also not fun, since you fight with bad graphics instead of the enemy.

Thats what the fog we are talking about ...

[Roessler89]

Originally Posted by perestain

It does not matter the slightest what you eventually see if you take as much time as you please to look at it.


If you play seriously you only have split seconds to spot, identify and aim. Reaction time is usually about 0.2 seconds upon instant spotting. Reducing visibility with fog and PP increases the time you need to "be sure" someone is there easily by a multitude of reaction time.

This is a game altering change, since it is suddenly not about better training and reflexes, but about whose eyes happen to be better aligned with the spectral difference of the greenish blob he tries to identify as enemy or prop.

Duels suddenly depend less on skill and training, and more on genetics.

- 10% of all males are colorblind, and will have massive disadvantages if they switch to CS GO as it is. This is totally unneccessary.

- It is very frustrating to only lose a duel even if you have much better aim just because you simply couldnt see a guy you are supposed to see because of lacking game graphics. The game is NOT FUN THAT WAY. This has happened all the time when I still played the beta and is absolutely unacceptable for CS as a sport. This is not CAMO STRIKE!


Visibility is very much a dealbreaker, people simply have not trained aiming hundreds and thousands of hours to then play a game where it doesnt matter since you cannot see ♥♥♥♥ (on a timescale where it actually counts).



tl,dr:

Reduced visibility makes quick spotting harder. For some people it is worse, for some its less of a problem, depending simply on their genetics (the absorption spectra of the little cones in their eyes to be precise).
If spotting takes significantly longer than aiming (which is ~0.2 seconds), then aiming becomes an almost irrelevant skill. The game then is a farce from a competitive perspective, since training does not pay off. It is also not fun, since you fight with bad graphics instead of the enemy.

Thats what the fog we are talking about ...

I understand all these points, what I'm saying is that I just simply don't have a problem at all identifying targets at range in a timely manner. The only map I can say that I have difficulty differentiating between the player and the map is Aztec, at double doors.

I really don't understand how people cannot quickly identify a target even with the fog on. I'm all for leveling the gameplay across the board, and it won't bother me too much when all these visuals go but, I believe the issue has been slightly exaggerated.

[freakn1ck]

Originally Posted by Roessler89

I understand all these points, what I'm saying is that I just simply don't have a problem at all identifying targets at range in a timely manner. The only map I can say that I have difficulty differentiating between the player and the map is Aztec, at double doors.

I really don't understand how people cannot quickly identify a target even with the fog on. I'm all for leveling the gameplay across the board, and it won't bother me too much when all these visuals go but, I believe the issue has been slightly exaggerated.

all we want is the option to turn it off if it's our preference

[Overclocker_]

Originally Posted by freakn1ck

all we want is the option to turn it off if it's our preference

Exactly.

[Roessler89]

Originally Posted by freakn1ck

all we want is the option to turn it off if it's our preference

And I agree that you should be given the option, but I also understand why Valve/HPE would be hesitant to provide that.

[GrOXoS]

Originally Posted by Roessler89

I understand all these points, what I'm saying is that I just simply don't have a problem at all identifying targets at range in a timely manner. The only map I can say that I have difficulty differentiating between the player and the map is Aztec, at double doors.

I really don't understand how people cannot quickly identify a target even with the fog on. I'm all for leveling the gameplay across the board, and it won't bother me too much when all these visuals go but, I believe the issue has been slightly exaggerated.

im agree with you.. everyone are complaining about the fog and I know...it make the game less clean,but I can see everything pretty well.. there only a few position..spotting from mid-ct to long and in aztec... but its ok...

the only think that is a ♥♥♥♥ is the color_correction that make the game colourless

[perestain]

Originally Posted by Roessler89

I understand all these points, what I'm saying is that I just simply don't have a problem at all identifying targets at range in a timely manner. The only map I can say that I have difficulty differentiating between the player and the map is Aztec, at double doors.

I really don't understand how people cannot quickly identify a target even with the fog on. I'm all for leveling the gameplay across the board, and it won't bother me too much when all these visuals go but, I believe the issue has been slightly exaggerated.

It seems you either have either very good eyes or slow aim, and probably a good monitor setup.

When I play, I oftentimes notice people only after tracers come flying at me or because a red name pops over my crosshair. Rifling down mid in d2 is blind spray, since I cannot see anything. Things like these are not acceptable if you want to take the game serious.

At this point, I am stayin with CSS, where I have no visibility issues whatsoever.

Lets look at the comparison :

No Fog & PP:
looks nicer to the majority of players, rewards training, no unfair disadvantage for colorblind players.

Fog & PP:
Are ther any pro's actually? All i ever hear is excuses how it is not THAT bad and how people need to adapt. Yet noone has ever voiced any actual argument which indicates fog and pp would be benefiting for the game. (And no, simply insulting the intellect of people by trying to tell them you see better with fog is not gonna count)


Seriously, this should be such an absolute no-brainer, yet people defend fog and pp without any argumentative basis, and valve is not giving a ♥♥♥♥ either and forces people to use it.

Thats why a lot of people, me included stopped playing the beta and providing feedback since it is a waste of time.

If a decision that is as one-sided, obvious and easy to make, is not made, I have serious doubts about the design philosophy and beta-testing methodology that HPE applies here. Especially considering that various fixes for the visibility problem were removed instantly from the game after they became known.

[Roessler89]

Originally Posted by perestain

It seems you either have either very good eyes or slow aim, and probably a good monitor setup.

When I play, I oftentimes notice people only after tracers come flying at me or because a red name pops over my crosshair. Rifling down mid in d2 is blind spray, since I cannot see anything. Things like these are not acceptable if you want to take the game serious.

At this point, I am stayin with CSS, where I have no visibility issues whatsoever.

Lets look at the comparison :

No Fog & PP:
looks nicer to the majority of players, rewards training, no unfair disadvantage for colorblind players.

Fog & PP:
Are ther any pro's actually? All i ever hear is excuses how it is not THAT bad and how people need to adapt. Yet noone has ever voiced any actual argument which indicates fog and pp would be benefiting for the game. (And no, simply insulting the intellect of people by trying to tell them you see better with fog is not gonna count)


Seriously, this should be such an absolute no-brainer, yet people defend fog and pp without any argumentative basis, and valve is not giving a ♥♥♥♥ either and forces people to use it.

Thats why a lot of people, me included stopped playing the beta and providing feedback since it is a waste of time.

If a decision that is as one-sided, obvious and easy to make, is not made, I have serious doubts about the design philosophy and beta-testing methodology that HPE applies here. Especially considering that various fixes for the visibility problem were removed instantly from the game after they became known.

My eyes aren't fantastic and I generally outaim 8 players out of 10. But yes, I do have a great monitor (Benq 120hz 3d monitor) and a fairly powerful rig, which may play a part in my game appearing clearer.

I'm in no way defending the PP/fog nor can I find a suitable reason for its existence other than "oh that looks nice". I agree that the "Science of Fog" that they released sounded good in theory however failed in practicality, but it really isn't as bad as many people have made it out to be (at least in my experience).

I don't know what you're talking about when you say they removed certain cvars from the game, as the only command I can think of that they have removed is "weapon_recoil_model".

Perhaps I'll try playing at low settings and see if that makes a difference in how I perceive PP/fog.