Renounce king to start own kingdom - relation changes?

[tekka1987]

In one of my singeplayer saves for Warband I'm currently a vassal of King Harlaus (of Swadia). My plan is to get strong, build up relations with the lords of Swadia as well as my right to rule, then break away and start my own empire.

So my question is:
If I decide to renounce my king after he denies giving me a fief I helped to capture, I will get to start my own kingdom. I know I will lose around 20 relation points with the King, will I lose any relationship with the other Swardian lords?? Also, will I instantly gain any negative relation with Swadia or the other factions? I know if my right to rule is too low I can expect opposition from all other factions, is 30-40 enough, or should I grind it to 50?

[Mr SmokesAlot]

I didn't start my own kingdom until I had 80 rtr and it was smooth sailing but that was mostly due to the fact that I aimed for 'devoted' status among the lords, so that when they finally join my kingdom, they won't grow crazy mad at me for assigning fiefs to other vassals. There's nothing more tedious than paying a lady 3 grand over and over again to restore some relation with lords who utterly hate you

You also only lose relation with the king which is easy as pie to restore, nobody else.

[tekka1987]

Smokes, when you started your own kingdom, did you besiege a fief as an independent or renounce an oath to a king?

I'm deciding whether to:
1. stay a vassal, then rebel when he refuses to give a fief, or;
2. renounce him right away, be a mercenary in a few campaigns for the other factions to build relations and right to rule, cancel my contract at the end of the month then strike out on my own.

I'm a bit worried about being surrounded on all fronts once I go independent.

[Mr SmokesAlot]

I went for #2 and headed straight for Jelkala.

[Almainyny]

Not entirely related, but I'm actually planning on doing something similar. Problem with that plan right now is, I have captured Dhirim and the surrounding castles through wars. Not thinking that through, I realized that particular region is surrounded by the Vaegirs, Nords, Swadians, Rhodoks AND Kherjits, while being somewhat close to the Sarranids. Holy hell, that's going to be tough to defend.

[Mr SmokesAlot]

Originally Posted by Almainyny

Not entirely related, but I'm actually planning on doing something similar. Problem with that plan right now is, I have captured Dhirim and the surrounding castles through wars. Not thinking that through, I realized that particular region is surrounded by the Vaegirs, Nords, Swadians, Rhodoks AND Kherjits, while being somewhat close to the Sarranids. Holy hell, that's going to be tough to defend.

Yeah thats why I went for Jelkala. It's easy to defend and there's never any bandits around.

[tekka1987]

Originally Posted by Almainyny

Not entirely related, but I'm actually planning on doing something similar. Problem with that plan right now is, I have captured Dhirim and the surrounding castles through wars. Not thinking that through, I realized that particular region is surrounded by the Vaegirs, Nords, Swadians, Rhodoks AND Kherjits, while being somewhat close to the Sarranids. Holy hell, that's going to be tough to defend.

Was this as an independent or for a faction?

That's another thing I'm concerned about, if I try and hold Swardian land, I'm sure i'll face the same problems they do - too many border fronts with other aggressive factions. Too much land to cover if you need to defend every fief.

Jelkala looks awesome in terms of defence, but seiging Rhodoks is such a pain... I guess I could try and become marshal for Swadia and just throw all the other lord's men at it, then defect...

Question:
Do you get right to rule if your faction is getting hammered, then they negotiate a peace treaty / cease-fire? Or does only the dominating faction get RtR?

[Mr SmokesAlot]

Every time the faction you belong to (either as king, vassal or merc) enters truce, you gain RtR.
I'm bored so I made a vid of my kingdom lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2E1nX8iDko&hd=1

[azxcvbnm321]

In order to be successful as your own king, you really must prepare ahead of time. You should have a castle or town as a fief so that you can stockpile troops. You need a large number of good troops because you'll be attacked once you declare independence and have to face a combined army of hundreds of not 1000+ troops. If you didn't prepare, the situation could be hopeless (though there are always ways to stave off defeat for experienced players). You MUST have a large horde of cash because there will be no way to support this stockpile of troops until you get many many more fiefs. So build up your cash BEFORE you start stockpiling. Like I said, this takes a lot of preparation, but it'll make independence a lot easier.

[Mr SmokesAlot]

Originally Posted by azxcvbnm321

In order to be successful as your own king, you really must prepare ahead of time. You should have a castle or town as a fief so that you can stockpile troops. You need a large number of good troops because you'll be attacked once you declare independence and have to face a combined army of hundreds of not 1000+ troops. If you didn't prepare, the situation could be hopeless (though there are always ways to stave off defeat for experienced players). You MUST have a large horde of cash because there will be no way to support this stockpile of troops until you get many many more fiefs. So build up your cash BEFORE you start stockpiling. Like I said, this takes a lot of preparation, but it'll make independence a lot easier.

Yep, I left with 150k which is a nice buffer for the beginning of a new kingdom. You probably need at least 50k but it never hurts to be prepared. You'll get loads of coin in due time

[Asphe]

Originally Posted by Almainyny

Not entirely related, but I'm actually planning on doing something similar. Problem with that plan right now is, I have captured Dhirim and the surrounding castles through wars. Not thinking that through, I realized that particular region is surrounded by the Vaegirs, Nords, Swadians, Rhodoks AND Kherjits, while being somewhat close to the Sarranids. Holy hell, that's going to be tough to defend.

At least it's interesting. It's no accident that Dhirim also tends to be the richest town. What you can do is give your vassals either nearby villages or the smaller castles as fiefs. The vassals will then guard theirs and yours.

Originally Posted by Mr SmokesAlot

Yeah thats why I went for Jelkala. It's easy to defend and there's never any bandits around.

Bandits are good for training. What you can do is 'move' the bandit camps into spots where they don't bother your peasant caravans too much, then use them as training fodder.

Originally Posted by azxcvbnm321

In order to be successful as your own king, you really must prepare ahead of time. You should have a castle or town as a fief so that you can stockpile troops. You need a large number of good troops because you'll be attacked once you declare independence and have to face a combined army of hundreds of not 1000+ troops. If you didn't prepare, the situation could be hopeless (though there are always ways to stave off defeat for experienced players). You MUST have a large horde of cash because there will be no way to support this stockpile of troops until you get many many more fiefs. So build up your cash BEFORE you start stockpiling. Like I said, this takes a lot of preparation, but it'll make independence a lot easier.

1000 man garrison can and will deter most campaign armies. Only costs 1 denar/week per man. Yes... peasants. I've never been attacked when I had 2000 men in the garrison. Only 2k denar/week. They can even win battles (General Otto von Calc). For the same money, how many knights can you get? Peasant garrisons. Power to the people.

Originally Posted by Mr SmokesAlot

Yep, I left with 150k which is a nice buffer for the beginning of a new kingdom. You probably need at least 50k but it never hurts to be prepared. You'll get loads of coin in due time

An enterprise in every town, peasant garrisons, small (<100 elite knights/archers) campaign army. Your expenses should be considerably less than your revenue. During peace times, you can disband your campaign army... or if you chose the right gender, indulge in some preemptive alimony.

When you actually have a budget deficit... kill the lawyers (bandits) and tax the poor (heck of a lot more poor than there are the 'rich').

[tekka1987]

Originally Posted by Asphe

At least it's interesting. It's no accident that Dhirim also tends to be the richest town. What you can do is give your vassals either nearby villages or the smaller castles as fiefs. The vassals will then guard theirs and yours.



Bandits are good for training. What you can do is 'move' the bandit camps into spots where they don't bother your peasant caravans too much, then use them as training fodder.



1000 man garrison can and will deter most campaign armies. Only costs 1 denar/week per man. Yes... peasants. I've never been attacked when I had 2000 men in the garrison. Only 2k denar/week. They can even win battles (General Otto von Calc). For the same money, how many knights can you get? Peasant garrisons. Power to the people.



An enterprise in every town, peasant garrisons, small (<100 elite knights/archers) campaign army. Your expenses should be considerably less than your revenue. During peace times, you can disband your campaign army... or if you chose the right gender, indulge in some preemptive alimony.

When you actually have a budget deficit... kill the lawyers (bandits) and tax the poor (heck of a lot more poor than there are the 'rich').

I'm planning to garrison Swardia Militia as they are low tier/cheap units which spawn with ranged weapons. Just place them along my siege walls if I need to defend

[Asphe]

Originally Posted by tekka1987

I'm planning to garrison Swardia Militia as they are low tier/cheap units which spawn with ranged weapons. Just place them along my siege walls if I need to defend

The flaw here, and it's a very small one, is that the Militia costs just a bit more than the peasant. The advantage is that it allows you to skip one training level when you need crossbowman or knights (Swadian Knights, fastest to train to max level, yet almost as 'heavy' as Mamlukes).

BTW, you can use ANY faction's peasants for your garrison. And if you think that it is impossible to transport thousands of troops easily... you chose the wrong gender ^-^.