Flow going backwards problem

Dr.Boo.j2 · 05-02-2012, 03:13 AM

I got a problem with navigation (again) and I'm hoping someone here has a bit more experience with this.
First of all, this is the output I get when doing nav_analyze:

Code:

Flow Debug...
  Door(prop): checkpoint_entrance (4522.000000 9330.000000 -260.000000)
  Flow Warning: Checkpoint failed to locate nearby info_change_level!
Initializing Director's script
Initializing Flow Distances...
  Player starting area = 64627(50.000000 87.500000 0.031250)
  Goal area set by checkpoint!
  Goal area = 14051(4450.000000 9550.000000 -311.968750)
  Flow Error: Goal not reached...
    Started at goal...    Start 64627(50.000000 87.500000 0.031250), End 14051(4450.000000 9550.000000 -311.968750)
  Flow Error: No starting area found via flow!
...Flow done!

When you do the z_show_flow_distance 1 command, it shows you those numbers xxxx/xxxx right? And when your numbers are -9999/-9999, it means your nav is broken somewhere. And when your nav is correct, these numbers are supposed to start at 0 in your beginning area and increase as you move towards the ending saferoom right?
Well for me it's doing it backwards. In the ending saferoom, it starts at 0/0 and it increases as I move back towards the starting area. However, I have a point of no return somewhere. A point where the Survs drop down and cant go back up... obviously since it's counting the numbers backwards, the flow detects that you can't go back up at that point and it marks the nav as broken because of that. So basically, when running the map backwards, the ENDING saferoom has numbers 0/0, this increases up until I get to that point of no return, from there on, it becomes the dreaded -9999/-9999 numbers and continues giving those numbers all the way to the starting area.
I'm not sure why it seems to be counting the numbers backwards. It seems as it's trying to create a flow backwards.
What I've done:

- Marked the areas in which the Survivors spawn + some areas around them as PLAYER_START
- Made sure the info_changelevel touches the ending saferoom floor
- Made sure I have an info_landmark in the saferoom
- Made sure the info_changelevel has that landmark in it's appropriate field
- Filled in the "next map name" of the info_changelevel
- Made sure the info_landmark is perfectly aligned with the info_changelevel's center
- The floors in the ending saferoom are marked CHECKPOINT
- The ending saferoom has a prop_door_rotating_checkpoint
- I have rescue closets which the nav properly marked.

Is there anything else I'm missing? Anyone has an idea why the flow is counting backwards?
This is not a finale, it's the first map.

shotgunefx · 05-02-2012, 08:14 AM

I'm not sure but had a similar issue recently. The bots were getting stuck in the underground area, dancing around the ladders so I connected the ladders one way up, and just connected to the surface straight to the tunnel floor as they are short drops with no damage incurred. So I had a connected flow both ways, just slightly different paths

This caused no issue for the entrance manhole, but when I did it to the exit manhole, it broke the flow. Same issue, traced back from the ending area (which atm is set by a nav_flow_target) to that point. So anywhere prior to it -9999/-9999. And oddly enough, I have other one way drops that cause no issues. The only thing I could think of was the drop that was breaking was taller than the one that wasn't and maybe that has something to do with it.

You might want to look at the nav for Dark Carnival map 2 and see how they handle the big one way drop.

Dr.Boo.j2 · 05-03-2012, 02:52 AM

I fixed it by analyzing the drop down on The Parish map 3. Apparently, if the drop is high enough, you have to manually draw a nav tile somewhere halfway the drop (yes, that tile will be floating mid-air) and connect via that.
Works now.

Other problem now: my map randomly crashes to desktop, no errors, when playing CoOp. On Versus however, it seemed to be fine...

Argh!

shotgunefx · 05-03-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Boo.j2

I fixed it by analyzing the drop down on The Parish map 3. Apparently, if the drop is high enough, you have to manually draw a nav tile somewhere halfway the drop (yes, that tile will be floating mid-air) and connect via that.
Works now.

Other problem now: my map randomly crashes to desktop, no errors, when playing CoOp. On Versus however, it seemed to be fine...

Argh!

Good to know. I hate random crashes like that. Anything you're spawning/killing on game mode?

Dr.Boo.j2 · 05-03-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgunefx

Good to know. I hate random crashes like that. Anything you're spawning/killing on game mode?

I'm gradually stripping my map away from everything I suspect... I've deleted the
- Custom models
- Gamemode entity that detects the game mode
- point_templates
- Ragdoll models
- Soundscapes
- info_map_parameter and info_parameter_versus
- Nav_blocker entities
- func_areaportalwindows and their fading func_brushes
- The case_logic that determines what dynamic path to open
- The filter entity that cancels fall damage
- The env_smokestack
- weapon_item_spawn entities

So far... still random crashes in game. Not during loading, but in game. If I find what causes this, I'll make sure to share the knowledge, because doing this is frustrating to no end.

shotgunefx · 05-03-2012, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Boo.j2

I'm gradually stripping my map away from everything I suspect... I've deleted the
- Custom models
- Gamemode entity that detects the game mode
- point_templates
- Ragdoll models
- Soundscapes
- info_map_parameter and info_parameter_versus
- Nav_blocker entities
- func_areaportalwindows and their fading func_brushes
- The case_logic that determines what dynamic path to open
- The filter entity that cancels fall damage
- The env_smokestack
- weapon_item_spawn entities

So far... still random crashes in game. Not during loading, but in game. If I find what causes this, I'll make sure to share the knowledge, because doing this is frustrating to no end.

I know how you feel. Worst type of problems to diagnose. Have you looked at your raw entity counts in coop/vs via report_entities?

Dr.Boo.j2 · 05-10-2012, 12:19 AM

Apparently, it's my cancel damage entity that bugged it. I think.
I don't know what exactly was wrong with it. i'll have to study it more.

05-02-2012, 03:13 AM	#1
Dr.Boo.j2 Join Date: Jul 2009 Reputation: 819 Posts: 3,087	Flow going backwards problem I got a problem with navigation (again) and I'm hoping someone here has a bit more experience with this. First of all, this is the output I get when doing nav_analyze: Code: Flow Debug... Door(prop): checkpoint_entrance (4522.000000 9330.000000 -260.000000) Flow Warning: Checkpoint failed to locate nearby info_change_level! Initializing Director's script Initializing Flow Distances... Player starting area = 64627(50.000000 87.500000 0.031250) Goal area set by checkpoint! Goal area = 14051(4450.000000 9550.000000 -311.968750) Flow Error: Goal not reached... Started at goal... Start 64627(50.000000 87.500000 0.031250), End 14051(4450.000000 9550.000000 -311.968750) Flow Error: No starting area found via flow! ...Flow done! When you do the z_show_flow_distance 1 command, it shows you those numbers xxxx/xxxx right? And when your numbers are -9999/-9999, it means your nav is broken somewhere. And when your nav is correct, these numbers are supposed to start at 0 in your beginning area and increase as you move towards the ending saferoom right? Well for me it's doing it backwards. In the ending saferoom, it starts at 0/0 and it increases as I move back towards the starting area. However, I have a point of no return somewhere. A point where the Survs drop down and cant go back up... obviously since it's counting the numbers backwards, the flow detects that you can't go back up at that point and it marks the nav as broken because of that. So basically, when running the map backwards, the ENDING saferoom has numbers 0/0, this increases up until I get to that point of no return, from there on, it becomes the dreaded -9999/-9999 numbers and continues giving those numbers all the way to the starting area. I'm not sure why it seems to be counting the numbers backwards. It seems as it's trying to create a flow backwards. What I've done: - Marked the areas in which the Survivors spawn + some areas around them as PLAYER_START - Made sure the info_changelevel touches the ending saferoom floor - Made sure I have an info_landmark in the saferoom - Made sure the info_changelevel has that landmark in it's appropriate field - Filled in the "next map name" of the info_changelevel - Made sure the info_landmark is perfectly aligned with the info_changelevel's center - The floors in the ending saferoom are marked CHECKPOINT - The ending saferoom has a prop_door_rotating_checkpoint - I have rescue closets which the nav properly marked. Is there anything else I'm missing? Anyone has an idea why the flow is counting backwards? This is not a finale, it's the first map.

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05-02-2012, 08:14 AM	#2
shotgunefx Join Date: Jan 2010 Reputation: 151 Posts: 2,407	I'm not sure but had a similar issue recently. The bots were getting stuck in the underground area, dancing around the ladders so I connected the ladders one way up, and just connected to the surface straight to the tunnel floor as they are short drops with no damage incurred. So I had a connected flow both ways, just slightly different paths This caused no issue for the entrance manhole, but when I did it to the exit manhole, it broke the flow. Same issue, traced back from the ending area (which atm is set by a nav_flow_target) to that point. So anywhere prior to it -9999/-9999. And oddly enough, I have other one way drops that cause no issues. The only thing I could think of was the drop that was breaking was taller than the one that wasn't and maybe that has something to do with it. You might want to look at the nav for Dark Carnival map 2 and see how they handle the big one way drop.

05-03-2012, 02:52 AM	#3
Dr.Boo.j2 Join Date: Jul 2009 Reputation: 819 Posts: 3,087	I fixed it by analyzing the drop down on The Parish map 3. Apparently, if the drop is high enough, you have to manually draw a nav tile somewhere halfway the drop (yes, that tile will be floating mid-air) and connect via that. Works now. Other problem now: my map randomly crashes to desktop, no errors, when playing CoOp. On Versus however, it seemed to be fine... Argh!

05-10-2012, 12:19 AM	#7
Dr.Boo.j2 Join Date: Jul 2009 Reputation: 819 Posts: 3,087	Apparently, it's my cancel damage entity that bugged it. I think. I don't know what exactly was wrong with it. i'll have to study it more.