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Old 05-28-2012, 12:55 PM   #151
CrazyMoeFoe
 
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Originally Posted by sabbath-(HB)- View Post
Thanks, didn't know about wireshark. I just don't see the need to use "any" software to kick/ban from a p2p lobby. If you encounter a cheater in a p2p lobby, LEAVE! Use TVDW's reporting tool and find another lobby. What's so hard about that? Are some of you people so hung up with having the power to kick people that you are no longer able to see the problem here or what? What do you people do if your not the one hosting and there's a cheater in the room? Do you stay and wait until your host just so you can kick him? My guess is that you would leave. I mean really people, some of you have you wires crossed.
^^ Well said. This just goes to show that a lot of those arguing in support of this tool are doing so not primarily to kick cheaters, but to enforce their own rules in a public game...

Also the fact that any cheater using hacks can use a force host hack and MW3SA becomes useless. So it's not even really THAT effective at kicking REAL hackers/cheaters.

In any case though it doesn't matter... As stated before people will just use other methods to cheat.. err I mean kick people. The problem lies in P2P matchmaking itself, and the inability to avoid such abusive admins/hosts. At least with a proper ranked dedicated server system we can EASILY avoid those with overinflated ego's who abuse kick/ban features. (Which is why they like P2P and bash dedi's, unlike dedi's where their server ends up empty, they will ALWAYS have full lobbies of people to enforce their rules on and play god)
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:59 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by tvdw View Post
Same way writing memory is detectable, except that you can't monitor changes.
Well I guess you could circumvent this by sandboxing Steam and reading externally.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:59 PM   #153
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So using a third party program to (potentially maliciously) disable the outgoing and incoming network connections of a program isn't interfering?
No. If I unplug my router while I'm the host, everyone drops connection, just did the same thing MW3sa would do, so ban everyone who has their internet disconnect?
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:01 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by CrazyMoeFoe View Post
^^ Well said. This just goes to show that a lot of those arguing in support of this tool are doing so not primarily to kick cheaters, but to enforce their own rules in a public game...

Also the fact that any cheater using hacks can use a force host hack and MW3SA becomes useless. So it's not even really THAT effective at kicking REAL hackers/cheaters.

In any case though it doesn't matter... As stated before people will just use other methods to cheat.. err I mean kick people. The problem lies in P2P matchmaking itself, and the inability to avoid such abusive admins/hosts. At least with a proper ranked dedicated server system we can EASILY avoid those with overinflated ego's who abuse kick/ban features. (Which is why they like P2P and bash dedi's, unlike dedi's where their server ends up empty, they will ALWAYS have full lobbies of people to enforce their rules on and play god)
If you play the game for 2 hours, you can clearly see that the majority of players hate users/players who camp, use akimbos, get lag comp, bait their team, use OP weapons.

I don't care if these things were put into the game and you're free to use them, they cause more grief, ♥♥♥♥♥ing, moaning, complaining, arguing, gripe, and problems in the game than MW3sa ever has or will. Everyone against MW3sa seems to say that it's hurting the game. It's very clear to anyone that the above mentioned things are hurting the game more. Therefore if every host was equipped with the tool, you would see far less of these players, regardless of what the original intentions of the tool were, and what you are allowed to use in the game. Now obviously there would be times where the host himself would be an akimbo using, camping, team baiting asshat, but that would be far and few inbetween.

If you're in a lobby and there's 9 out of 12 players ♥♥♥♥♥ing about one person, regardless of what they're doing, whether someone thinks they're right or wrong, majority rules, and the host could get rid of that person and everyone would be much happier and the game would be better.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:01 PM   #155
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No. If I unplug my router while I'm the host, everyone drops connection, just did the same thing MW3sa would do, so ban everyone who has their internet disconnect?
Everyone disconnects, including you. In MW3SA only specific players get disconnected, the game itself is still running (for the other players).

I like MW3SA nonetheless.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:04 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by schoerg View Post
Everyone disconnects, including you. In MW3SA only specific players get disconnected, the game itself is still running (for the other players).

I like MW3SA nonetheless.
My point was that, in the end, each player is just a connection. There are many variables that can cause a connection to drop. It would be impossible to say what caused that connection to drop. There are many things that could accidentally block a player's incoming connection and drop him, well was it MW3sa or just a derp from your anti-virus? Oh well, ban them anyway?
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:07 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by edavis.j View Post
My point was that, in the end, each player is just a connection. There are many variables that can cause a connection to drop. It would be impossible to say what caused that connection to drop. There are many things that could accidentally block a player's incoming connection and drop him, well was it MW3sa or just a derp from your anti-virus? Oh well, ban them anyway?
Anti-Virus is not a firewall lol.

I didn't say it should be banned, because I know that's not possible. (from a VAC point of view, you can run MW3SA on a different computer and VAC won't see anything)
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:08 PM   #158
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Anti-Virus is not a firewall lol.

I didn't say it should be banned, because I know that's not possible. (from a VAC point of view, you can run MW3SA on a different computer and VAC won't see anything)
A typical AV will include a firewall, even if it's ty. I don't know of many players that have a physical firewall, and what is included on your home router isn't quite a firewall.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:10 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by edavis.j View Post
If you play the game for 2 hours, you can clearly see that the majority of players hate users/players who camp, use akimbos, get lag comp, bait their team, use OP weapons.

I don't care if these things were put into the game and you're free to use them, they cause more grief, ♥♥♥♥♥ing, moaning, complaining, arguing, gripe, and problems in the game than MW3sa ever has or will. Everyone against MW3sa seems to say that it's hurting the game. It's very clear to anyone that the above mentioned things are hurting the game more. Therefore if every host was equipped with the tool, you would see far less of these players, regardless of what the original intentions of the tool were, and what you are allowed to use in the game. Now obviously there would be times where the host himself would be an akimbo using, camping, team baiting asshat, but that would be far and few inbetween.

If you're in a lobby and there's 9 out of 12 players ♥♥♥♥♥ing about one person, regardless of what they're doing, whether someone thinks they're right or wrong, majority rules, and the host could get rid of that person and everyone would be much happier and the game would be better.
then there would be less games to join eventually.just glad when the ranked servers come back with BO II so a**holes like you .get booted out for complaining and not being civil
you join a game you play with the hand delt some of you guys are a joke you want the world to revolve around what you think shoud be allowed in a game.so your telling me the guns ect in the game shouldnt be there to use?/but if you do i`ll kick you.you guy`s werent raised right.you have no sense of fairness
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:11 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by edavis.j View Post
A typical AV will include a firewall, even if it's ty. I don't know of many players that have a physical firewall.
Physical firewall is most likely in your router, simply blocking all incoming connections. (Also called NAT)

A software firewall is usually useless. What's it good for?
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:15 PM   #161
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Physical firewall is most likely in your router, simply blocking all incoming connections. (Also called NAT)

A software firewall is usually useless. What's it good for?
Well a home rotuer will perform some functions that a firewall may, but it's not a firewall.

My point, was whether it be a software firewall on it's own, or from an AV, or even a physical firewall, and it derps, as things do, and blocks a connection. If that happened, there would be no way to tell if it was MW3sa or another source. So anyone who is against MW3sa should just really understand, there's nothing that can be done.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:20 PM   #162
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Well a home rotuer will perform some functions that a firewall may, but it's not a firewall.

My point, was whether it be a software firewall on it's own, or from an AV, or even a physical firewall, and it derps, as things do, and blocks a connection. If that happened, there would be no way to tell if it was MW3sa or another source. So anyone who is against MW3sa should just really understand, there's nothing that can be done.
Well, then what does a firewall do? A typical firewall is iptables.

The difference between MW3SA and everyting else is that you can exactly kick someone. With a firewall which just lists IPs it's a lucky guess whom you kick.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:39 PM   #163
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Well, then what does a firewall do? A typical firewall is iptables.

The difference between MW3SA and everyting else is that you can exactly kick someone. With a firewall which just lists IPs it's a lucky guess whom you kick.
Among restricting/allowing specific IP's which a typical router will do, it's also going to monitor, filter, and examine individual packets/traffic going through and with set rules allow or not allow them through, which a typical router won't.

My point is to those who are against MW3sa and think that it will somehow be banned or restricted. There are so many variables that could cause a connection to drop, so many errors along the way. There's no definitive way to tell what caused the connection to drop.

Last edited by edavis.j: 05-28-2012 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:51 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by edavis.j View Post
If you play the game for 2 hours, you can clearly see that the majority of players hate users/players who camp, use akimbos, get lag comp, bait their team, use OP weapons.

I don't care if these things were put into the game and you're free to use them, they cause more grief, ♥♥♥♥♥ing, moaning, complaining, arguing, gripe, and problems in the game than MW3sa ever has or will. Everyone against MW3sa seems to say that it's hurting the game. It's very clear to anyone that the above mentioned things are hurting the game more. Therefore if every host was equipped with the tool, you would see far less of these players, regardless of what the original intentions of the tool were, and what you are allowed to use in the game. Now obviously there would be times where the host himself would be an akimbo using, camping, team baiting asshat, but that would be far and few inbetween.

If you're in a lobby and there's 9 out of 12 players ♥♥♥♥♥ing about one person, regardless of what they're doing, whether someone thinks they're right or wrong, majority rules, and the host could get rid of that person and everyone would be much happier and the game would be better.
Your entire argument shows why we NEED proper ranked dedicated servers instead of this P2P garbage. You want every host to have admin abilities so they can enforce their own rules just like a dedicated server.

Problem is P2P isn't a dedicated server. They forced P2P matchmaking on us as the only solution for ranked because they do not want people enforcing stupid rules.

I find it ironic that people dislike dedi's because of rules or abusive admins, and instead they want P2P and MW3SA, so they can have the same rules and abusive hosts, without the ability to avoid them.

It does not matter if the majority in the game are whining and complaining about a certain weapon or perk. If anything that entire argument just shows how many really bad players there are who whine about anything that kills them. It also shows how the chaotic lawless nature of P2P brings out the worst in people. Everyone whines and complains instead of playing the game and acting civilized Like saying nice shot instead of f*** you (insert weapon name here) noob.

Nobody should have the ability to kick/ban whenever they want without ANY consequences at all. Abusive dedicated server admins end up with empty servers in no time, MW3SA abusers ALWAYS have full games to abuse their power in. THAT is the real problem.


Also as I said before, this entire thread is pointless. Even without MW3SA hosts will still find a way to cheat..err kick people. The problem is really with P2P matchmaking itself, and not necessarily the MW3SA tool.

Last edited by CrazyMoeFoe: 05-28-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:38 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by schoerg View Post
Well, then what does a firewall do? A typical firewall is iptables.

The difference between MW3SA and everyting else is that you can exactly kick someone. With a firewall which just lists IPs it's a lucky guess whom you kick.
hmmm my router has a firewall
you are wrong go find tvdw`s post you can do lots with the router in the way of kicking people.except most dont have the nessary skill set to do such things.it`s a small % that can use it to kick the right people.so the avarage player 90% i would say dont know anything except the basics of routers and firewalls.your argument stinks
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