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Old 05-26-2012, 02:47 PM   #1
Jailbait38
 
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Red face Punishing scammers.

There is no denying that people pour a large amount of money in to steam trading. So let's review what punishments VALVe put im place for scammers and hackers, the main 2 types of people who spoil the fun.

If you are caught scamming (potentially $100s to $1000s worth of items):
-2 week trade ban, followed by probation (full trading privilages)
-keep all your items that you didn't scam (I would imagine this is hard to verify, and that some items slip through the net)
-repeated instances result in a permanent ban from traing, yet if they want to go on a valve controlled server, and scam in ways that don't require to be able to trade they are free to do so.

If you are caught using exploits (speedhack, wallhack, aimbot, even people using a programme which gives them in game achevements):
-Banned permanently from every VALVe owned server, with no chance of an appeal.
-Every item not bought from the store removed from steam inventory (potentially $1000s worth)

Am I the only one who thinks that this is an absolute disgrace? People who lie, cheat and steal $100s worth of items are able to get away with the equivalent of a slap on the wrist, yet stupid little scrpit kiddies get a punishment so much more severe it is scary.

My jimmies have been rustled.

Get it together nerds.

Last edited by Jailbait38: 05-27-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:09 PM   #2
cylon
 
 
 
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Steam has this thing called a TRADE WINDOW. If you trade within this, you are protected (apart from "bad deals" where you give away super meat boy for MW3 - that's your own fault!). If you trade outside the trade windows then you do so at your own risk. Valve has NO WAY to track what you may or may not have traded outside of their system, so there is NO WAY to prove that you didn't get your £25 via paypal or not!

TL-DR - Trade inside the trade window only.

If you cheat, they legally can't remove all your games as they are games (or licenses before the "you dont own the games" police turn up) that you have paid for. It's also unfair for people that have their accounts taken and then get them back to find out the person has cheated on the account. (Also there are VERY FEW valve servers, unless you mean muliplayer?)
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cylon View Post
Steam has this thing called a TRADE WINDOW. If you trade within this, you are protected (apart from "bad deals" where you give away super meat boy for MW3 - that's your own fault!). If you trade outside the trade windows then you do so at your own risk. Valve has NO WAY to track what you may or may not have traded outside of their system, so there is NO WAY to prove that you didn't get your £25 via paypal or not!

TL-DR - Trade inside the trade window only.

If you cheat, they legally can't remove all your games as they are games (or licenses before the "you dont own the games" police turn up) that you have paid for. It's also unfair for people that have their accounts taken and then get them back to find out the person has cheated on the account. (Also there are VERY FEW valve servers, unless you mean muliplayer?)
This. One thing I would like to note, though, when you're VAC banned, you're not banned of VALVE servers only. You're banned from every VAC-secured server (of the game/license in which you received the ban).
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:42 AM   #4
Jailbait38
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cylon View Post
Steam has this thing called a TRADE WINDOW. If you trade within this, you are protected (apart from "bad deals" where you give away super meat boy for MW3 - that's your own fault!). If you trade outside the trade windows then you do so at your own risk. Valve has NO WAY to track what you may or may not have traded outside of their system, so there is NO WAY to prove that you didn't get your £25 via paypal or not!

TL-DR - Trade inside the trade window only.

If you cheat, they legally can't remove all your games as they are games (or licenses before the "you dont own the games" police turn up) that you have paid for. It's also unfair for people that have their accounts taken and then get them back to find out the person has cheated on the account. (Also there are VERY FEW valve servers, unless you mean muliplayer?)
How about you take a look at what is ACTUALLY happening. People buy and sell virtual items ALL THE TIME. Get your head out of the sand. You think it's fine for people to get scammed out of $1000s worth, just because it's outside of the trade window? VALVe don't, that's why they trade ban scammers, you clown. My point is that the punishment is no where near as severe as it should be.


Thanks for providing a completely irrelevant pile of garbage for me to waste my time reading.
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:38 AM   #5
GDL
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailbait38 View Post
How about you take a look at what is ACTUALLY happening.
How about people look at the rules Valve have set out.
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:16 AM   #6
Anarchisteve
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailbait38 View Post
How about you take a look at what is ACTUALLY happening. People buy and sell virtual items ALL THE TIME. Get your head out of the sand. You think it's fine for people to get scammed out of $1000s worth, just because it's outside of the trade window? VALVe don't, that's why they trade ban scammers, you clown. My point is that the punishment is no where near as severe as it should be.


Thanks for providing a completely irrelevant pile of garbage for me to waste my time reading.
Firstly, it is unnecessary to be so rude to Cylon, he wasn't to you.

Secondly, Valve cannot verify what happened outside of the trading window. Let's say you and I decide to trade. I offer MW3 in exchange for Paypal money. After the trade is complete I can complain to Valve that you didn't pay me, and then get the game back, leaving you out of pocket for a game you haven't received.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:45 AM   #7
Jailbait38
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchisteve View Post
Firstly, it is unnecessary to be so rude to Cylon, he wasn't to you.

Secondly, Valve cannot verify what happened outside of the trading window. Let's say you and I decide to trade. I offer MW3 in exchange for Paypal money. After the trade is complete I can complain to Valve that you didn't pay me, and then get the game back, leaving you out of pocket for a game you haven't received.
Cool, thanks for CTRL+V'ing what Cyclon said. VALVe can verify it, and they do, hence the trade ban system. What I am complaining about is that the punishments that are put in place ARE NOT ENOUGH. VALVe aren't a bunch of idiots (debatable) and they can tell when someone gets scammed, they have chatlogs, trade histories, lists of alt accounts etc.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:21 AM   #8
cylon
 
 
 
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They may DO IT - Valve however have NO WAY of knowing what has happened. All they can see is that you have gifted something in the trade system to someone else. How do they know if you have or haven't received your £1000 via paypal? I could sell you a hat for £50 tomorrow and you could pay me, what's to stop me saying you didn't? How can they tell? Even though you say they can ... THEY CAN'T. They can't see into your bank account, they can't see into mine. A screenshot of "£50 left my account is proof of nothing".

Steam support themselves state:
Quote:
What should I not trade for?

Do not trade for anything that cannot be added into the trade window within Steam. The most common examples of these scenarios are the following:
  • Trading items/gifts for money. You cannot add wallet credit or any form of money into the trade window. A common example of this is trading for items/gifts in return for money via PayPal.

Last edited by cylon: 05-27-2012 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:31 AM   #9
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I agree with the OP. Punishment for scammers for stealing actual money from people is way to soft. Scam once and done.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:43 AM   #10
Jailbait38
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cylon View Post
They may DO IT - Valve however have NO WAY of knowing what has happened. All they can see is that you have gifted something in the trade system to someone else. How do they know if you have or haven't received your £1000 via paypal? I could sell you a hat for £50 tomorrow and you could pay me, what's to stop me saying you didn't? How can they tell? Even though you say they can ... THEY CAN'T. They can't see into your bank account, they can't see into mine. A screenshot of "£50 left my account is proof of nothing".

Steam support themselves state:

I heard bad things about these forums, but this really is something else. VALVe trade ban scammers when they have proof of them scamming.

What I am saying is that the punishment they hand out is not severe enough. I don't care what you think people should or should not be trading.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:49 AM   #11
Anarchisteve
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailbait38 View Post
I heard bad things about these forums, but this really is something else. VALVe trade ban scammers when they have proof of them scamming.

What I am saying is that the punishment they hand out is not severe enough. I don't care what you think people should or should not be trading.
Valve are only responsible for trades that take place within their trade mechanism. Why should they be held accountable for things that happen elsewhere? If I met somebody at the pub and did a trade in person should Valve sort it out if it goes wrong?
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:00 AM   #12
Iconoclast XVII
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailbait38 View Post
How about you take a look at what is ACTUALLY happening. People buy and sell virtual items ALL THE TIME. Get your head out of the sand. You think it's fine for people to get scammed out of $1000s worth, just because it's outside of the trade window? VALVe don't, that's why they trade ban scammers, you clown. My point is that the punishment is no where near as severe as it should be.


Thanks for providing a completely irrelevant pile of garbage for me to waste my time reading.
His point was that it takes TWO PEOPLE TO SCAM SOMEONE. One to scam, and one to get scammed. If you ONLY use the trade window, it's not a problem. If you choose to do a risky deal, that they recommend against, and you get scammed, it is your fault. That is why mods go around locking threads that offer/want keys/paypal, because there is a chance that it is a scam.

Valve can't possibly control everything. If I meet some random guy on the street (or another website, for a more realistic scenario, I guess), and he says he'll give me $20 paypal for CS:GO, and I get scammed, Valve can't do about that.
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:50 AM   #13
Jailbait38
 
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You morons have

A) The inability to read.

B) No common sense.

For the FINAL TIME. My point is NOT about THE CRIME. It is about the PUNISHMENT. VALVe are TOO LENIANT. Is that CRYSTAL CLEAR? Or do I have to write the same thing again.

Last edited by Jailbait38: 05-27-2012 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:21 AM   #14
Anarchisteve
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by Jailbait38 View Post
You morons have

A) The inability to read.

B) No common sense.

For the FINAL TIME. My point is NOT about THE CRIME. It is about the PUNISHMENT. VALVe are TOO LENIANT. Is that CRYSTAL CLEAR? Or do I have to write the same thing again.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to insult anybody who doesn't agree with you but maybe that is something for you to think about.

Valve offer a trading system. Trades within that system they deal with. Trades outside of that system are nothing whatsoever to do with them. They say (in multiple places) not to trade outside of the trading window, if people choose to ignore that it is their decision.
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:51 AM   #15
Jailbait38
 
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Originally Posted by Anarchisteve View Post
I'm not sure why you feel the need to insult anybody who doesn't agree with you but maybe that is something for you to think about.

Valve offer a trading system. Trades within that system they deal with. Trades outside of that system are nothing whatsoever to do with them. They say (in multiple places) not to trade outside of the trading window, if people choose to ignore that it is their decision.
You guys are too much.
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