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Old 06-05-2012, 11:23 PM   #1
XxaP
 
 
 
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Windows 8 and Steam

I actually followed the advice first this time, and it would seem neither 'search' or Google' are my friends.

What are peoples experiences with Steam and Windows 8, especially that it's nearing it's final Beta phase before official release in a few months?
I need to reinstall Windows 7 after a bad case of the gremlins caused by the last batch of updates (I think) and was considering just going with Windows 8 instead. The only thing keeping me back would be Steam compatibility.
I see Steam users had a few problems initially but there were workarounds, and as this new Beta is a whole new version so I'd like to hear from someone using it currently!
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:11 AM   #2
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In my (short) experience with Windows 8 compatibility was pretty decent. Generally, almost all games that play nice with Windows 7 should also work with Windows 8 without issues once you installed the proper drivers. You won't get any Steam for Metro just yet, but it should work just fine on the classic desktop as usual.

That said "just going with Windows 8" at this time is a pretty bad idea on a production system. It's currently only available in beta ("Release Preview") and in old Microsoft tradition, you will almost certainly not be able to just upgrade to the final version once it's out!
You will have to reinstall your entire system again in just a couple of months and will only be running an unsupported beta-version of your main OS in the mean time - not really a compelling idea.

You will be able to upgrade your Windows 7 set-up, though ... so going from there to the final version of Windows 8 will be much simpler.

Also, make sure to try Windows 8 before you commit to it (parallel install somewhere).
My experience with it was: From a purely technical point of view it's an impressive improvement over older versions of Windows, it's blazing fast in just about every area, faster than I thought a Windows operating system could be. It's build on a rock solid and certainly impressive kernel and foundation and comes with build in support for all the latest improvements in hardware.

It also comes with the single worst user experience on a desktop system I have every experienced. I upgraded from every Windows since 3.0 in a heartbeat. I could see the positive aspects in Vista and even Windows ME. I feel comfortable on OS X just as much as in Linux with Unity or Gnome 3. I liked Microsoft's ribbon interface in Office 2007 and 2010 - in short: when it comes to new technology and different user interfaces, I consider myself quite flexible and capable of focusing on the positive. So this shouldn't be taken lightly:

Never has a user interface change been so incredibly off-putting to me. Metro is terrible to use on a non-touchscreen device and borderline impossible on a multi-monitor-setup (because it requires accessing vital elements by moving the mouse into corners and borders where there are none - making it a pixel-hunt).
You're constantly shifting between two worlds, none of which feels complete. Settings are hidden or randomly sprinkled all over both worlds.
It's the very first time where I'm seriously considering sticking with my old version of Windows when the new one comes out despite all the technical advances.

Last edited by freibooter: 06-06-2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:20 AM   #3
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Never has a user interface change been so incredibly off-putting to me. Metro is terrible to use on a non-touchscreen device and borderline impossible on a multi-monitor-setup (because it requires accessing vital elements by moving the mouse into corners where there are none - making it a pixel-hunt).
You're constantly shifting between two worlds, none of which feels complete. Settings are hidden or randomly sprinkled all over both worlds.
It's the very first time where I'm seriously considering sticking with my old version of Windows when the new one comes out.
Agreed, what really jarateed me off was that Windows 8 beta completely uninstalled my Windows 7 and put it in a separate folder. I had to completely reinstall W7, thank God I have all my important files on my 1TB drive. When installing the consumer preview this wasn't mentioned anywhere that was easily readable.

Right now, I love Windows 7 and to be honest W8 was a real big let down, sure everything runs fine but the human interface concept is just, idiotic. Windows 8 will be a no buy from me at least. I understand how they want to incorporate everything together from their Windows phones and tablets but this is just plain stupid.

Guess I'll be sticking with my Windows 7 64bit Enterprise and my Ubuntu 12.04 OS for the mean time
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:28 AM   #4
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Agreed, what really jarateed me off was that Windows 8 beta completely uninstalled my Windows 7 and put it in a separate folder.
I strongly urge everyone to download the .ISO of the Release preview, boot from DVD or USB (a USB install can be created with the usual "Windows 7 USB DVD Download Tool") and install it into a parallel partition.

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Right now, I love Windows 7 and to be honest W8 was a real big let down, sure everything runs fine but the human interface concept is just, idiotic.
The most frustrating thing is, that it doesn't just run "fine" it runs significantly better and faster than previous Windows builds. If you thought that the speed improvements from Vista to 7 were impressive, you will be blown away by those of 8. Were it not for the terrible interface, this would have been the most impressive version of Windows ever.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ElijahChondo43 View Post
Agreed, what really jarateed me off was that Windows 8 beta completely uninstalled my Windows 7 and put it in a separate folder. I had to completely reinstall W7, thank God I have all my important files on my 1TB drive. When installing the consumer preview this wasn't mentioned anywhere that was easily readable.

Right now, I love Windows 7 and to be honest W8 was a real big let down, sure everything runs fine but the human interface concept is just, idiotic. Windows 8 will be a no buy from me at least. I understand how they want to incorporate everything together from their Windows phones and tablets but this is just plain stupid.

Guess I'll be sticking with my Windows 7 64bit Enterprise and my Ubuntu 12.04 OS for the mean time
I Believe Stardock implied that MS was creating W8 to kill off the PC or at least PC gaming so that the Xbox and Windows Tablets would be everyone's main source for gaming and office work.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:38 AM   #6
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The most frustrating thing is, that it doesn't just run "fine" it runs significantly better and faster than previous Windows builds. If you thought that the speed improvements from Vista to 7 were impressive, you will be blown away by those of 8. Were it not for the terrible interface, this would have been the most impressive version of Windows ever.
And I agree, it is fast but to have that kind of speed with such a crap interface isn't justifiable enough for me to switch and say it's the best. For what W7 is, it's one of the better if not the best Windows OS I've used(aside from XP <3). If they drop this "Metro" crap and do a regular desktop that we all know and love and have used for the past 20 years almost then it would be one of the better Windows.

Guess it's all preference but either way, they screwed the pooch on this one in my eyes.

Doesn't surprise me, I own a Xbox and I only use it to play the main titles it has available and racing games. If there is a Steam/Origin/Desura/etc on the PC then that's where I buy them first.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:42 AM   #7
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While that may be a bit too much speculation, this is clearly an OS specifically not designed for regular desktop PCs. It certainly does feel like Microsoft doesn't see a bright future for them in private households and considers tablets and consoles to be the future home entertainment and productivity.

That's why I'm hoping for Steam for Linux to arrive soon - there certainly are enough Linux distributions ready and eager to take Windows' place once given the chance.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:45 AM   #8
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That's why I'm hoping for Steam for Linux to arrive soon - there certainly are enough Linux distributions ready and eager to take Windows' place once given the chance.
Oh right when Steam fully supports Linux I'm gone from Windows forever! I've had Ubuntu and Fedora for some time already but I can't fully use them because of my gaming hobbies. Hopefully we can all switch before the end of this year!
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:54 AM   #9
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Thanks for that full response, freibooter. If you hadn't mentioned all the good stuff I probably wouldn't have heeded your warnings.

I do indeed plan on using a triple monitor surround display, so it's probably best to just reinstall Win7 for now - and as you mentioned, make it alot easier to upgrade (if I want) upon windows 8 release day in a couple of months and retain my files. It's too bad, one of the biggest reasons I got re-excited about Win8 was reading of the extra attention to multi-monitor setups by the Windows team this time out

I have an extra 40gb ssd specifically for trying other os's, and Linux doesn't seem to get any improvements on an ssd over it's usual 'blazingly fast' hdd install - so Windows 8 Beta will be the perfect use.

Your judgement on the UI experience is also disappointing considering your personal UI adaptability, as this IS the defining feature people will be talking most about for the next couple of years - and Microsofts biggest risk in a while. I hope this doesn't scare them away from continuing to explore alternatives to the current 1980s style desktop model we've gotten all too used to.

Sounds like Windows 8 will be ripe for ui modders, app designers like Stardock, or even official Microsoft 'dlc' in the form of UI skins. Hmmm, Steam UI opportunity anyone?

Last edited by XxaP: 06-06-2012 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:26 AM   #10
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Sounds like Windows 8 will be ripe for ui modders, app designers like Stardock, or even official Microsoft 'dlc' in the form of UI skins. Hmmm, Steam UI opportunity anyone?
Follow chrischameleon's link and read StarDock's press release:

"In the near-term, if Microsoft is unable or unwilling to address these kinds of basic issues, there will almost certainly be no shortage of third-party programs to address this. However, it is our opinion that there is not a viable commercial market for software that exists to fix features of Windows 8 because many, if not most, users will simply not migrate to it and may choose other computing avenues."

Even Stardock thinks that Windows 8 will be a colossal failure (due to its UI) and is claiming that it's currently not developing software to fix its many UI shortcomings.

Last edited by freibooter: 06-06-2012 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:45 AM   #11
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Follow chrischameleon's link and read StarDock's press release:

"In the near-term, if Microsoft is unable or unwilling to address these kinds of basic issues, there will almost certainly be no shortage of third-party programs to address this. However, it is our opinion that there is not a viable commercial market for software that exists to fix features of Windows 8 because many, if not most, users will simply not migrate to it and may choose other computing avenues."
Maybe not Stardock, but doesn't Steam have 40 million pc-enthusiastic installs? Even a fraction of that would be a successful start. Steam could also have an app store for non game programs - I might even start paying for them at Steams sale pricing. With that many users it'd be easy to attract any developers required for UI specific applications as well.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:17 AM   #12
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Oh right when Steam fully supports Linux I'm gone from Windows forever! I've had Ubuntu and Fedora for some time already but I can't fully use them because of my gaming hobbies. Hopefully we can all switch before the end of this year!
Linux is fine and I look forward to using Steam on linux. But don't take your hopes too high. When the linux client is released, we still won't have many games. The OSX port can now be considered old, and it still doesn't have many games.

So it's absolutely sure that you cannot completely switch before the end of the year unless you use steam for its community features only, and not for gaming.

No worries, current windows versions remain to be working and supported, so nothing stops you or anyone else from keeping your current configuration.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:23 AM   #13
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I didnt like the chnages from XP to vista, then i prefered them, then i didnt like the changes from vista to 7, now i like them. Tbh i dont see a problem with W8
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:40 AM   #14
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I didnt like the chnages from XP to vista, then i prefered them, then i didnt like the changes from vista to 7, now i like them. Tbh i dont see a problem with W8
I did like all those changes, almost from the beginning. Because with every change I could see and understand why I was made and that there are benefits to it - at least for some users, if not always for myself.
Most people don't like UI changes in general, because they are used to the old UI. That's why there are still so many people clinging to XP or even Windows 2000, or Gnome 2.x or KDE 3.x when it comes to Linux.

Windows 8 is different. It's clearly a UI made for a different device (touch-screen tablet) than you will be forced to use it on (non-touch-screen desktop). It's shortcomings on this platform are glaring an obvious, but were quite deliberately ignored.
Can you still get used to it? Probably - but unlike with previous changes, getting used to these changes will take quite some dedication and they ultimately won't make your life easier - unless you own and use Windows tablets most of the time and benefit from the UI consistency across devices.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:03 AM   #15
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I could see myself using a touchpad it it was worked into the keyboard or mousepad. Microsoft also has that touchpad mouse hybrid. Now with a few years of practical field use, a revision with Windows 8 in mind might find a purpose - I could even get used to a screen there, for non gaming UI interaction and browsing & apps.
I can't understand how Microsoft came to price their Kinnect for PC at $250... Kinda prohibitive for a mouse/webcam experiment. Windows 8 sounds like it could've easily been the 'killer app' Microsoft's been needing to highlight it's creation and push it into industry's imagination. I think Windows 8 shows potential to adapt perfectly to Kinnect's strengths, particulary in UI manipulation. Headtracking, gesture, photo ID, voice recognition and much more all in one sweep.

Last edited by XxaP: 06-06-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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