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Old 06-13-2012, 09:30 PM   #1
voLtageKK!
 
 
 
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Suggestion for new VAC System

As it seems we already have a lot of cheaters in CS:GO.
I bet it took the programmers less than 1 hour to port a CS:S hack to CS:GO. Basically they are the same games.

All VAC does is to recognize a already known sourcecode of a cheat and ban the player using this cheat with a random delay of a few days.

Why are they unable to implent a cheat recognition system which works like this:

Each server has a config containing the settings of the game.(roundtime, c4 timer, maximal moving speed etc.)

Those are serversided commands the server dictates everyone to use.
VAC could read these settings and if someone is breaking these rules, like a speedhacker is moving faster than the Config allows, VAC could add them to a list of "possible" cheaters for further investigation.

Another method to make wallhacking harder is this:

In a game every player is visible for everyone.
The walls are only BLOCKING the sight, so if you would remove the wall, the player behind becomes visible.

Thats the issue! Way to prevent this:
If someone is behind a wall, the game SHOULDN'T render this model at all. Just render the footsteps.
This wouldn't make wallhacking impossible, but it would make wallhacks useless which are just making the wall invisible.

Another thing that would help ALOT is a server-function, like for a 5on5 match on ESL or ESEA, that automatically (and everytime!) records a "HLTV" demo you can download from the server after the match.

So far.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:39 PM   #2
Warboss Choppa
 
 
 
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How bout this, any alteration from the DLL files would instantly lock you out from the game.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:16 AM   #3
Roessler89
 
 
 
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Taking my idea from another thread, outsource to hackers to fill in the gaps left by VAC.

Wanted to bump this to get a little more discussion on how to improve VAC as it REALLY needs improving. At the moment it's not a deterrent, no one trusts VAC to do its job and there are other anti-cheating clients out there that are a hell of a lot more effective.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:25 AM   #4
Agent_Wesker
 
 
 
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Sourcemod, which was recently ported to CS:GO has its own anti-cheat system. If you really believe your own server needs the extra protection you should get it. I would rather the Valve anti cheat not be overbearing and intrusive.

The only thing VAC detects is when something hooks into the game code, which has a limited capacity to stop cheaters.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent_Wesker View Post
Sourcemod, which was recently ported to CS:GO has its own anti-cheat system. If you really believe your own server needs the extra protection you should get it. I would rather the Valve anti cheat not be overbearing and intrusive.

The only thing VAC detects is when something hooks into the game code, which has a limited capacity to stop cheaters.
This.
Also, Chet confirmed that valve will be "reviving" VAC, and VAC works fine for me right now, I've only met 1 hacker in a VAC secured game ever.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:16 AM   #6
Roessler89
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent_Wesker View Post
Sourcemod, which was recently ported to CS:GO has its own anti-cheat system. If you really believe your own server needs the extra protection you should get it. I would rather the Valve anti cheat not be overbearing and intrusive.

The only thing VAC detects is when something hooks into the game code, which has a limited capacity to stop cheaters.
I understand this however, what happens if we want a ladder/league system to be implemented just like in SC2? Would VALVe use an out-of-house anti-cheat application? Of course not, they would use VAC and as such VAC needs to be brought up to industry standards.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roessler89 View Post
I understand this however, what happens if we want a ladder/league system to be implemented just like in SC2? Would VALVe use an out-of-house anti-cheat application? Of course not, they would use VAC and as such VAC needs to be brought up to industry standards.
If you cheat in a competitive enviroment you're pretty much dead meat. it's an insta-ban.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:37 AM   #8
Spanky88
 
 
 
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They just have to be careful about false positives, remember the fiasco a couple years ago?
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:03 PM   #9
ChocOrange
 
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Sadly most people who have posted here have little, if any clue, how hacks work and how to prevent them, let alone detect and ban them effectively.


Although VAC works [sic] on unknown techniques (they've never been disclosed), it's widely acknowledged amongst Leagues that is ineffective, which is why ALL sizeable/respected leagues provide their own anti-cheat.

I've said it before that there are still players playing CSS that have been caught by various league anti-cheats YEARS ago that still haven't been banned by VAC. And before people start saying the league ones were/are incorrect... vent.exe. Enough said...

And admins that is YEARS old... so VAC should ban anyone googling it and using it It's just given as an example of why VAC is poor. Leagues admins and players will understand.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:10 PM   #10
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Now that you mention it, perhaps better communication between leagues and Valve?

When someone get's banned by a league and the evidence is clear, black on white, he should basically be added to the vac banlist.

The problem is that this also needs to be automated somehow, which in turn requires an agreement between both parties.

I've also seen the issue the other way around. Hackers on ESL (before the new Wire anticheat it was quite frequent) with 7 steam ID's on their ESL page, 6 of them VAC banned. Funny enough none of these cheats were picked up by the ESL anti cheat.

N/O but when someone has 6 out of 7 ID's VAC'ed... fml, just ban him from the league already.

Last edited by Corrupt^: 06-15-2012 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:56 PM   #11
Roessler89
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwey_again View Post
If you cheat in a competitive enviroment you're pretty much dead meat. it's an insta-ban.
That's in community leagues of course.

What I'm talking about is developing a standard / agreement between VAC and other anti-cheat clients so that when VALVe implement their OWN league (not community league) VAC will do it's job. And I really want VALVe to get this matchmaking SC2 league going.

Communication definitely needs to increase between these parties.

An automatic syncing between Sourcebans and VAC would be nice, however there needs to be a review/contest system (yes I'm already afraid of it being abused) simply because I've seen Sourcebans ban a player for speedhacking who wasn't - he was just lagging and skipping all over the place.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:29 AM   #12
qu3x^
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voLtageKK! View Post
As it seems we already have a lot of cheaters in CS:GO.
I bet it took the programmers less than 1 hour to port a CS:S hack to CS:GO. Basically they are the same games.

All VAC does is to recognize a already known sourcecode of a cheat and ban the player using this cheat with a random delay of a few days.

Why are they unable to implent a cheat recognition system which works like this:

Each server has a config containing the settings of the game.(roundtime, c4 timer, maximal moving speed etc.)

Those are serversided commands the server dictates everyone to use.
VAC could read these settings and if someone is breaking these rules, like a speedhacker is moving faster than the Config allows, VAC could add them to a list of "possible" cheaters for further investigation.
Speedhacks are not related to server speed.
They are called client hacks for one reason. So basicly VAC has to determind if a player moves to fast from point A to B. Some cheats do work like "lag". So if a player experiencing lag and pushes you forward to another coordinate your cheat flagged???

Won't workt out. To many false positives!

Quote:
Originally Posted by voLtageKK! View Post
Another method to make wallhacking harder is this:

In a game every player is visible for everyone.
The walls are only BLOCKING the sight, so if you would remove the wall, the player behind becomes visible.

Thats the issue! Way to prevent this:
If someone is behind a wall, the game SHOULDN'T render this model at all. Just render the footsteps.
This wouldn't make wallhacking impossible, but it would make wallhacks useless which are just making the wall invisible.
What you are describing is HW culling, implemented in quite every single modern game. Valves Engine works exactly the same.
A wallhack simple prevents the card to cull objects 3d geometry to certain distance. While level geometry is saved in the BSP of the map it could be easily seperated from the other render calls like models and envoirmental props. Even if there was/will be a way to prevent that. The server has to give clients information about movement cordinates to each client. You could still ad a dummy to to the player location instead of the actual model cause the client already knows the information, even if he is not seeing the actuall model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voLtageKK! View Post
Another thing that would help ALOT is a server-function, like for a 5on5 match on ESL or ESEA, that automatically (and everytime!) records a "HLTV" demo you can download from the server after the match.
This won't help a bit cause demo data can be edited afterwards frame by frame. Even if you think you have evidence about somebody cheating, caught on demo. It won't help to prevent it from happening. You couldn't account it cause demos could be edited.

It's a cat mouse game with cheat and anti cheat technologies.
Best way to avoid cheating. Play on VAC secured server that are well administraded.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:33 AM   #13
Marcem7121
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warboss Choppa View Post
How bout this, any alteration from the DLL files would instantly lock you out from the game.
VAC already works like this, though it has delayed bans.
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:43 PM   #14
zynaps
 
 
 
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I heard CS:GO will have a blocking system. If you see someone that is cheating you'll be able to block that player which means you'll never have to play against him again. Players getting blocked a lot will most likely be flagged as well.
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:52 PM   #15
aimbot
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wombo194 View Post
This.
Also, Chet confirmed that valve will be "reviving" VAC, and VAC works fine for me right now, I've only met 1 hacker in a VAC secured game ever.
You can't spot hackers lol

VAC does its job well enough. Tournaments will use their own anti-cheat so only those that pay for ring0 cheats can hack online. Pub ervers will have admins to ban hackers trying to rage people. VAC will pick up the majority of 'bad' cheats to make the pub servers a little tidier. Legit players will compete at LAN.
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