06-19-2012, 03:23 PM
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#1 | ||||||||
 Join Date: Oct 2011
Reputation: 415
Posts: 2,471
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The AK-47 and M4A1/M4A3 are not balanced correctly (Now with AUG-A3/SG556)
Getting the nitty-gritty details
AK/M4 in CS:GO currently feel very wrong. The spraying for both guns is the same, the AK got a price increase of $200 and worsened accuracy for standing/crouching stances. Makes the M4 much more attractive for tap shots/accurate shooting. None of this makes any sense. I went into the weapon script files to see what I could found about spread and accuracy, so here's what the defaults are: AK-47: Quote:
M4A3: Quote:
Both weapons have the same base spread, but the M4 has lower inaccuracy values (better accuracy) all around, on the current default values. Swap Time! Here is a video of both weapons with their default standing and crouching accuracy swapped & compared, in CS:GO only: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVEUHuJbhro This video is primarily used to demonstrate what the AK and M4 would play like if their crouch/standing values were swapped. Obviously this is not ideal, as I did not change the recoil values for this comparison, it is just an accuracy test for single/burst/tap shots. The AK47 should have (based on 1.6 and CS:S) slightly worse accuracy than the M4 in all scenarios, but significantly worse when running or otherwise mobile. Crouching walking has okay-ish accuracy (in previous titles. In CS:GO, there is no difference between crouching while stationary and crouching while moving, except in recoil decay time), but stationary is where this gun's place is. This is balanced because it suffers highly while on the move, accuracy wise and in movement speed. The AK47 costs $2500 ($2700 in GO) and gives you: Good accuracy at long range while stationary The ability to kill someone with a single headshot Poor accuracy while running, mediocre while walking Lower movement speed than the M4 Not good and moving and shooting 7.62mm cartridge (more powerful than the M4 round) The problem is twofold: AK-47 had a standing and crouching accuracy nerf a $200 price increase (this would be balanced if it had the same accuracy as previous games, or just a fair bit better accuracy than it has now) M4A3 got a slight accuracy buff (see previous patch notes that say increased accuracy for all guns, etc) Price unchanged (A bit imbalanced because it gained a little accuracy, but also nerfed because of the spraying pattern that matches the AK) Comparison of defaults across current versions of Counter-Strike http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy_H24O2fCc Perfect Values? These are suggested changes, and a visual representation of how they stack up to the defaults: AK-47 Changes Quote:
Default: http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x.../akdefault.jpg Proposed: http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...an5606/ak2.jpg M4A3 Changes Quote:
Default: http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x.../m4default.jpg Proposed: http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...an5606/m42.jpg These changes are balanced because while better than their current accuracy, they have adjusted recoil values, and they still perform worse than the AUG/SG556: AUG A3: Quote:
Quote:
Suggested AUG A3/SG556 Changes: Since I adjust the recoil values of the M4 and AK, the same should be done for the AUG A3 and SG556. AUG A3: Quote:
SG556: Quote:
Suggested Changes Comparison Across All Four Weapons in CS:GO: M4A3: http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...06/m4fixed.jpg AUG-A3: http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...6/augfixed.jpg AK-47: http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...06/akfixed.jpg SG556: http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...sg556fixed.jpg Last edited by Overclocker_: 06-22-2012 at 01:33 AM. Reason: Information/Clarification |
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06-19-2012, 03:27 PM
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#2 |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Reputation: 28
Posts: 504
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Good thread
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06-19-2012, 03:33 PM
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#3 |
 Join Date: Apr 2010
Reputation: 14
Posts: 454
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I couldn't agree more, should get attention!
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06-19-2012, 03:34 PM
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Reputation: 114
Posts: 416
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SpreadAlt? What's the alt? ...silencer?
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06-19-2012, 03:39 PM
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#5 |
 Join Date: Apr 2012
Reputation: 16
Posts: 925
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Interesting to say the least. Experimenting time!
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06-19-2012, 03:56 PM
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#6 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Reputation: 2
Posts: 163
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Quote:
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06-19-2012, 04:19 PM
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#7 | |||||
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Reputation: 37
Posts: 1,277
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by beggi: 06-19-2012 at 05:05 PM. |
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06-19-2012, 04:43 PM
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#8 |
 Join Date: Jun 2012
Reputation: 0
Posts: 23
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i honestly don't see anything wrong in that video, maybe lessen the time needed for gun to be accurate tapping, and have the m4's upward spread be a bit less so that its not nearly the same as ak's. other than that i don't see what everyone is fussing about.
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06-19-2012, 04:48 PM
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#9 |
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Reputation: 48
Posts: 745
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Think Aug > m4
Valve has this plan in mind. |
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06-19-2012, 05:01 PM
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#10 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Reputation: 37
Posts: 1,277
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Quote:
maybe he's actually right about AK usually having more accuracy on single shots than M4, but this huge wall of text which talks mostly about completely unrelated issues makes his point hard to understand for me -.- Last edited by beggi: 06-19-2012 at 05:12 PM. |
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06-19-2012, 05:11 PM
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#11 | |||
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Reputation: 415
Posts: 2,471
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Quote:
Quote:
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The AK-47 has poorer accuracy in GO than the SG552 already. The SG552 is more attractive, but swapping the standing+crouching spread values with the M4's one makes the difference smaller, but still fairly substantial. Maybe everyone is not reading today, but the video is of how the guns would play with swapped standing/crouching accuracy (ie, I went into the weapon scripts and changed the values prior to recording the video). I'm using the FOV command to show you the difference at range. I also showed you what spraying is like at the end - the same, with both guns. Not balanced yet, Valve need to fix that as I don't know how to change the recoil values. The quoted values in the OP are the stock ones, not switched ones. |
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06-19-2012, 08:46 PM
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#12 |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Reputation: 149
Posts: 2,393
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I always felt like it was unbalanced in previous games. All CT weapons cost more than a terrorist analog, plus CTs also have to buy kits. I always thought it was complete bull♥♥♥♥ that their guns would also be worse. I know an AK is more accurate in reality, but I think it's good that a gun that costs more would also be more accurate, especially when you're expected to buy more as a CT anyway.
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06-19-2012, 09:02 PM
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#13 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Reputation: 48
Posts: 745
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Quote:
Deagle I could care less about. It needs to have a greater disadvantage than the other pistols to give it proper balance. And to your quote, remember that in css, the accuracy values were changed. http://store.steampowered.com/news/6279/ As a result of this, the ak no longer hits dead accurately. I tested this out in source yesterday in fact. I was playing with my friend and growing extremely frustrated that I couldn't tap with the Ak and kill people. Sure enough! In terms of tapping, and bursting accuracy, the order when like this: Aug =/> sg552 > m4 >> ak The difference was annoyingly high. I never really tested it out, and since about the last 4 months I haven't played much source except for pubbing with friends. But once that update dropped, all my friends said how inaccurate the ak was, but I didn't notice. But a few days ago I started testing it out, and realized they were right. I miss the days of the ak having 2 accurate shots, and the third was a little high, and the fourth was way high. M4 was better control. |
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06-19-2012, 09:22 PM
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#14 | |||
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Reputation: 415
Posts: 2,471
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Quote:
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I want discussion of ideas to flow from this thread, not ignorance and member-hate. Quote:
Currently making a video comparing the AK/M4 of all game versions in the same spot on dust2. |
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06-19-2012, 09:25 PM
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#15 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Reputation: 37
Posts: 1,277
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Quote:
you say they're not balanced correctly, which is true. but trust me, basically the only problem is that M4 has too much recoil. the balance has NOTHING to do with AK single shots being less accurate than M4. it is supposed to be this way. i can make a 1.6 video, if you want. in fact, i already recorded the demo and was about to make a video out of it, but i thought i'd wait till you show your video <3 do you want to see the demo? you can see that i didnt make any mistakes in my experiment 
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