Harsh on plagiarism, but give devs a free pass?

Applebee · 08-17-2012, 12:09 PM

I've got some comments about the recent controversy surrounding the plagiarized Dota 2 Mace that was removed from the game a week ago. In case you haven't heard, there are articles here and here.

Copying a design is not cool, and I'm glad Valve removed the item and took back the money, but wasn't that enough? In the articles, it says the guy was permanently banned from the game, from the Steam Community, and from ever using the Workshop again. Isn't that a little overkill? I know the Workshop has specific rules about copying designs, but it has always been my understanding that that's part of the territory when it comes to mods (some modders base their items on other designs).

But I guess my main question is, if Valve is so harsh on plagiarism, how come they've given certain developers a free pass? Earlier this year, Orion: Dino Beatdown came out on Steam with quite a bit of plagiarized content. Not only that, but the creator (Dave Pressel) took money from Kickstarter over a year ago for a project he didn't deliver on, and also fired his workers without paying them anything that they were promised. There was an uproar on the forums about it.

How come people like that are allowed to continue selling their game on Steam, yet a person copies a design for a Workshop mod and gets permanently banned from the game and community for life?

Plumb_Drumb · 08-17-2012, 12:13 PM

good question

Jmcmatrixs · 08-17-2012, 12:14 PM

Well, plagiarism is bad.

Quote:

Just like with other forms of theft, the legal penalties for the crime vary depending on the severity. Going into a store and stealing a pack of gum is a lesser offence compared with stealing a car.

Source: Here

OmegaRed60 · 08-17-2012, 12:15 PM

He made money from what he stole.

That isn't anything like modded stuff we see in other games that people don't exchange money over. The profiting makes the difference. Nothing harsh about it. He deserved what he got.

ChrisW · 08-17-2012, 12:17 PM

I'm tired of people being soft on these crimes. Why shouldn't he be banned? He stole someone else's work and passed it off as his own. He then used it to rip off other people. Where is your moral compass?

Applebee · 08-17-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisW

I'm tired of people being soft on these crimes. Why shouldn't he be banned? He stole someone else's work and passed it off as his own. He then used it to rip off other people.

And what about Orion: Dino Beatdown? Nothing was done about that.
http://www.gatheryourparty.com/artic...oyee-beatdown/ and http://i.imgur.com/Nl1m8.jpg

Zaimun · 08-17-2012, 12:21 PM

I haven't read anything about Orion plagiarizing anything so can't comment on that. However, steam shouldn't act as police and if Dave pressel stole money from kickstarter that shouldn't be any of steam concern.

They can't exactly check everyone.
But I see your point and if it's true than that is of course very unethical and I wouldn't mind seeing some action taking against them.

Regarding the Dota 2 workshop item, that would've gotten valve in trouble as well if they knew about it but did nothing. So they're obviously making an example of him.

derrman0426 · 08-17-2012, 12:21 PM

The main issue is, he was making money off the item that he plagiarized.

So your argument about mods in CS 1.6 is invalid on that basis. Making mods based off copyrighted work for a game is all well and good because it comes under fair use, but if you make money off of it, you will be in for some serious trouble.

ChrisW · 08-17-2012, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Applebee

And what about Orion: Dino Beatdown? Nothing was done about that.
http://www.gatheryourparty.com/artic...oyee-beatdown/ and http://i.imgur.com/Nl1m8.jpg

You can't justify bad behavior by pointout to other bad bahavior. Steam workshop is Valve's property, so they are responsible for what happens with it's use. Valve does not own Dino Beatdown, so that is between the parties involved.

ititj · 08-17-2012, 12:23 PM

I would like to see action taken against Orion Dino Beatdown if that information is true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisW

You can't justify bad behavious by pointout to other bad bahavior. Steam workshop is Valve's property, so they are responsible for what happens with it's use. Valve does not own Dino Beatdown, so that is between the parties involved.

Valve does not own Dino Beatdown but they own Steam. They can take Dino Beatdown off of Steam just like that mace was taken off of Steam Workshop.

SnarKs · 08-17-2012, 12:25 PM

I remember all the ♥♥♥♥ dino beatdown got on release about them stealing stuff. Theres no proof. Its "his word against his" business going on with that situation. I looked into all of the accusations when that game came out. Lots of lerking done that week. And I found nothing but random posts from random forums from random users saying ♥♥♥♥ about the game and the developers making random accusations with no solid evidence.

/sigh

derrman0426 · 08-17-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Applebee

And what about Orion: Dino Beatdown? Nothing was done about that.
http://www.gatheryourparty.com/artic...oyee-beatdown/ and http://i.imgur.com/Nl1m8.jpg

Looking at the achievements now, the ones in that picture have been replaced with different ones.

GDL · 08-17-2012, 12:26 PM

Orion: Dino Beatdown should have been removed as well, given the s-storm it was on release as well, I'm glad the guy who copied the hammer got banned.

SnarKs · 08-17-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDL

Orion: Dino Beatdown should have been removed as well, given the s-storm it was on release as well, I'm glad the guy who copied the hammer got banned.

Because a ♥♥♥♥ storm was created means something illegal happened. Cool.

Anticitizen · 08-17-2012, 12:28 PM

The difference is whether you're making money off of it. Valve can be sued out of existence if they use something without clearing a copyright, so it's a potential threat to them.

Mods are free derivates on top of existing work - you can't play them without purchasing the game, and with that purchase you pay for the "copied" assets as well. It's an addition to something, not a copy of it.

Developers of paid games, like Dino D-Day, while they're technically copying things completely, aren't actually plagiarizing the assets - they're using the technology and assets they *paid for* when they bought their Source license, so they can sell it just fine.

This instance, however, someone copied content they didn't license (the silly mace thing from another game) and then tried to sell it for personal profit. Which is a bit like starting a band called "Beetles" that performs only cover songs of The Beatles, and expecting to turn a profit.

08-17-2012, 12:09 PM	#1
Applebee Join Date: Apr 2012 Reputation: 366 Posts: 752	Harsh on plagiarism, but give devs a free pass? I've got some comments about the recent controversy surrounding the plagiarized Dota 2 Mace that was removed from the game a week ago. In case you haven't heard, there are articles here and here. Copying a design is not cool, and I'm glad Valve removed the item and took back the money, but wasn't that enough? In the articles, it says the guy was permanently banned from the game, from the Steam Community, and from ever using the Workshop again. Isn't that a little overkill? I know the Workshop has specific rules about copying designs, but it has always been my understanding that that's part of the territory when it comes to mods (some modders base their items on other designs). But I guess my main question is, if Valve is so harsh on plagiarism, how come they've given certain developers a free pass? Earlier this year, Orion: Dino Beatdown came out on Steam with quite a bit of plagiarized content. Not only that, but the creator (Dave Pressel) took money from Kickstarter over a year ago for a project he didn't deliver on, and also fired his workers without paying them anything that they were promised. There was an uproar on the forums about it. How come people like that are allowed to continue selling their game on Steam, yet a person copies a design for a Workshop mod and gets permanently banned from the game and community for life? Last edited by Applebee: 08-18-2012 at 01:42 PM.

08-17-2012, 12:28 PM	#15
Anticitizen Join Date: Oct 2008 Reputation: 208 Posts: 762	The difference is whether you're making money off of it. Valve can be sued out of existence if they use something without clearing a copyright, so it's a potential threat to them. Mods are free derivates on top of existing work - you can't play them without purchasing the game, and with that purchase you pay for the "copied" assets as well. It's an addition to something, not a copy of it. Developers of paid games, like Dino D-Day, while they're technically copying things completely, aren't actually plagiarizing the assets - they're using the technology and assets they paid for when they bought their Source license, so they can sell it just fine. This instance, however, someone copied content they didn't license (the silly mace thing from another game) and then tried to sell it for personal profit. Which is a bit like starting a band called "Beetles" that performs only cover songs of The Beatles, and expecting to turn a profit. Last edited by Anticitizen: 08-17-2012 at 12:34 PM.

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08-17-2012, 12:13 PM	#2
Plumb_Drumb Banned Join Date: Jun 2011 Reputation: 55 Posts: 438	good question

08-17-2012, 12:15 PM	#4
OmegaRed60 Join Date: May 2008 Reputation: 569 Posts: 3,862	He made money from what he stole. That isn't anything like modded stuff we see in other games that people don't exchange money over. The profiting makes the difference. Nothing harsh about it. He deserved what he got.

08-17-2012, 12:17 PM	#5
ChrisW Join Date: Nov 2009 Reputation: 942 Posts: 3,076	I'm tired of people being soft on these crimes. Why shouldn't he be banned? He stole someone else's work and passed it off as his own. He then used it to rip off other people. Where is your moral compass?

08-17-2012, 12:21 PM	#7
Zaimun Join Date: Jun 2011 Reputation: 3 Posts: 87	I haven't read anything about Orion plagiarizing anything so can't comment on that. However, steam shouldn't act as police and if Dave pressel stole money from kickstarter that shouldn't be any of steam concern. They can't exactly check everyone. But I see your point and if it's true than that is of course very unethical and I wouldn't mind seeing some action taking against them. Regarding the Dota 2 workshop item, that would've gotten valve in trouble as well if they knew about it but did nothing. So they're obviously making an example of him.

08-17-2012, 12:21 PM	#8
derrman0426 Join Date: Jan 2010 Reputation: 1182 Posts: 2,737	The main issue is, he was making money off the item that he plagiarized. So your argument about mods in CS 1.6 is invalid on that basis. Making mods based off copyrighted work for a game is all well and good because it comes under fair use, but if you make money off of it, you will be in for some serious trouble.

08-17-2012, 12:25 PM	#11
SnarKs Join Date: May 2009 Reputation: 213 Posts: 1,150	I remember all the ♥♥♥♥ dino beatdown got on release about them stealing stuff. Theres no proof. Its "his word against his" business going on with that situation. I looked into all of the accusations when that game came out. Lots of lerking done that week. And I found nothing but random posts from random forums from random users saying ♥♥♥♥ about the game and the developers making random accusations with no solid evidence. /sigh

08-17-2012, 12:26 PM	#13
GDL Join Date: Mar 2012 Reputation: 1020 Posts: 2,245	Orion: Dino Beatdown should have been removed as well, given the s-storm it was on release as well, I'm glad the guy who copied the hammer got banned.