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Old 08-20-2012, 05:30 PM   #1
UnrealDiego
 
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How to counter Zoombots?

For me it seems like everything I do, I can't counter Zoombots on the Battle Bluffs or Dusk Till Death map. Normally I try to build a lava tower which looks like to be rather effective against Zoombots, but on these two maps there is often not enough space to build an effective one.

Another big problem is that even if I try to build a good defence against them, I got so little gold to spend on sending waves myself, so my opponent is snowballing slowly. If I win, it is because I sent tier 2 units (I prefer Knights) much sooner as him and therefore had much more damage done against his castle. Most of the time it is a very close win on my side, with my own castle nearly destroyed. But this does not always work.

Is there actually an effective way to counter Zoombots (lvl 3 of course) without spending thousands and thousands on gold on these two maps? Or is there just a major imbalance?
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:40 PM   #2
Swixel
 
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I'm finding everyone has to play the same opening game. Your best counter is an early push too, with allies or without. Once it's past the initial game, people have to start thinking about the maze. Leaking a small number on the first set isn't a game ender, but it can hurt a great deal. There are various threads outlining the current variations of the same 'winning approach' (200 of moops, upgraded 1 mine for 1v1, 2 for 2v2 or 3v3, upgrade to tier 2, send). Basically, if you can play the game back at the same speed, with the same skill, the maze starts to play a role.

My issue with that is that this is Tower Wars, not Sending Wars, and I'd rather towers play a greater role in the first 1-3 waves and then it drop (so that it's more strategy and less arcade), but each to their own ...
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:00 PM   #3
jmido
 
 
 
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Most people who use zoombots rush them asap. If you leak zoombots on that first push you probably aren't going to stop them once they start getting some upgrades. I just played against a guy who rushed me with zoombots. I didn't even have 3 mines at 6/6 before they started coming. He was an entire wave ahead of me on sending tier 2 units and I leaked 1-2 of them. Instead of focusing on towers, I started pumping out knights asap. I think I was able to get out 2 full waves with ARGS before the game was over while he only got out 1 wave with ARGS.
In the end, I won the base race with my knights even though he had done like 30% of my castle before my knights even started reaching the castle. Knights out dps zoombots and if he's rushing zoombots that hard, he won't be keeping up his maze either so you should be able to just keep pushing knights straight into his base. Also, there's a point in base races when you know you can't get any more waves to the castle before the game is over and the match is super close. When this happens, start pumping all your money into castle defense upgrades in hopes it'll give you an edge in the base race.

Also, if you're good at balancing the attack/towers early game, you should have an idea when they will start sending tier 2 units and ideally, you'll have some upgraded cannons ready for the push. If you can fend off the first wave while keeping a steady push, you'll probably win the game.

Last edited by jmido: 08-20-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:17 PM   #4
Voyler
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyler View Post
I can see why a lot of new players are having difficulty with the zoombots, but their counter is an overinvestment into defense. At this stage in the game both players will have max level 1 gold mines, so spending gold on defense vs spending gold on offense will not matter very much as long as your defense beats their offense you can spend your gold on sending units once their units are dying regularly. This period of time to setup your initial defenses DOES NOT put you at a disadvantage, because their maze will be almost unchanged since you were last there.

Zoombots I'll admit are quite expensive to counter, but once you shut them down effectively it becomes very hard for the other player to continue to earn battlepoints, upgrading their zoombots just makes them move quicker and subsequently die quicker, they do not gain a BP advantage like other units do for being upgraded. If you can shut down the zoombots it will force the other player to either tech into t3 before they are ready, or go back to knights, both cases you should be fine, because you still have your t2 unit, and a substantially stronger defense.
This^
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:02 PM   #5
Killertje
 
 
 
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The second you see an unupgraded zoombot expand your maze with 10+ cannons. If he upgrades his zoombots you upgrade your cannons and add more if needed. If the enemy doesnt go for zoombots you won't need more than 3-5 cannons until much later in the game though.
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:17 PM   #6
UnrealDiego
 
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@Voyler

Okay I just tried your tip, but it doesn't work always. I just had 3 level 1 gold mines with full workers, and I tried to build as much defence as I can when he sent zoombots. Even lots of cannons and arrow towers couldn't stop them though, there were always some who came through. And for even more and better defence I just didn't have the money, so I lost at the end.
It seems to be that I can only win this if I send knights earlier and just don't stop sending them, even though his zoombots come through. And this is not very interesting.

Last edited by UnrealDiego: 08-21-2012 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:01 PM   #7
Scynix
 
 
 
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@UnrealDiego
I think the problem is, if any of them leak, it's a snowball effect.. you've basically already lost. The odds are good they'll be able to upgrade the zoombots to higher levels, which means you need an equivalent level turrets.. and the previous mentioned 10 cannon turrets works, if you can catch their first wave of zoombots, and if you've got some curve so they get extra shots in. It's.. obnoxious. Especially since if you try to prep for zoombots and they decide to do something else, you're thrown off completely and are behind in gold.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:22 PM   #8
Azzer007
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scynix View Post
@UnrealDiego
I think the problem is, if any of them leak, it's a snowball effect.. you've basically already lost. The odds are good they'll be able to upgrade the zoombots to higher levels, which means you need an equivalent level turrets.. and the previous mentioned 10 cannon turrets works, if you can catch their first wave of zoombots, and if you've got some curve so they get extra shots in. It's.. obnoxious. Especially since if you try to prep for zoombots and they decide to do something else, you're thrown off completely and are behind in gold.
The problem is largely because of the nature of battlepoints - they are essential - everything hinges on battlepoints in a game, and they can ONLY be earned attacking. So the moment you are trying to spend your gold defending against somebody that unlocked the next tier 1 wave earlier than you, then without some incredible luck, that's it, you've lost, and may as well quit and restart - they can fill/upgrade/fill further their mines, upgrade their unit strengths, unlock new units - all you can do is continue to defend - and you can get stuck (not earning enough gold because you can't upgrade your mines, unable to send waves as fast as they do, they can lock out your BP while still sending waves at you, etc.)

Perhaps if you earned more gold than you currently do for killing enemy units, and if mines only required gold to upgrade and not battlepoints, this might shift things a little. But I guess you don't want to swing the balance completely towards towering and make nobody ever send any units and just build mazes :P
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:20 AM   #9
UnrealDiego
 
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Just thinking of it: Is there actually any point in using Zoombots?


Just look at it:

1. Your opponent has Zoombots first:
Why should you bother in spending BP in Zoombots too then? You may be able to get to the lead in BP if he s up, but how big are the chances?
=> Knights

2. Your opponent has Knights first:
Even then, why bother with Zoombots? You will never be able to make more damage with them, and if you choose knights you may stand a chance if his maze is worse.
=> Knights

3. You have tier 2 units first:
Why bother with Zoombots then? If he finally has tier 2 units and chooses Knights, he could eventually win.
=> Knights

And later in the game Zoombots are way too weak if you managed to get a good maze going.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:14 AM   #10
Buttayobread
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scynix View Post
@UnrealDiego
I think the problem is, if any of them leak, it's a snowball effect.. you've basically already lost. The odds are good they'll be able to upgrade the zoombots to higher levels, which means you need an equivalent level turrets.. and the previous mentioned 10 cannon turrets works, if you can catch their first wave of zoombots, and if you've got some curve so they get extra shots in. It's.. obnoxious. Especially since if you try to prep for zoombots and they decide to do something else, you're thrown off completely and are behind in gold.
This isn't true. If you build up your defense enough, you will eventually be able to stop the zoombots because they don't scale as well with the global upgrades as other units. You have to emphasize building a good maze with mostly arrow towers and some cannons built throughout it. Focus on making your total maze damage higher rather than trying to make damage higher just at the front, which is the typical strategy for the first few waves of moops.

You will still need to send an occasional wave at your enemy, and if they're pressing hard with zoombots they almost always have 3 level 1 mines fully upgraded. If you upgrade 1 of yours to level 2 and slowly add workers to (while still building up your defence as main priority), it will help turn the tide in your favor over time even though it will feel like you're behind for 5 or so waves.

Your maze will eventually be able to stop the zoombots, you'll have more income, and can start putting pressure on your opponent (ideally with knights).
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:22 PM   #11
Scynix
 
 
 
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@UnrealDiego and Buttayobread
I think you sorely underestimate the importance of being ahead in BP. Even if you only get a few waves through, if you get 3-5 waves of Zoombots through and they don't, you've already won with BP gain. Sure you can dump a ton of money into trying to 'catch up' defensively, and you may even catch the zoombots, but by that point they'll inevitably have made enough BP to move on to Clunkerbottoms and stat upgrades. Zoombots don't scale well, but they don't have to. They only have to scale enough to keep farming BP and to prevent you from being able to attack. You can't divide your funds between offense and defense if you're already leaking, and defending doesn't gain you BP.

The entire reason to send zoombots is farming BP, not trying to destroy their castle. Sure, I've won with zoombots before, but that's just icing on the cake.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:55 PM   #12
Voyler
 
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@OP - LavaTower
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:08 PM   #13
UnrealDiego
 
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Voyler, I know that the lava tower is effective against Zoombots, but the tower still costs very much.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:12 PM   #14
Voyler
 
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it costs 1 wave, it sets them back an entire tier
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:15 PM   #15
UnrealDiego
 
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Yeah maybe for the initial building. But level 3 Zoombots don't really get effected by a level 1 lava tower. Also don't forget that there is not always a good place to build one, because of the random mine placement.
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