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Old 09-04-2012, 03:38 AM   #1
michaelkane
 
 
 
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Thumbs up Easiest solution to stop Hackers 90% gone! V2.0

Most people against this feature/thread MUST be Hackers!



How COD IW System MUST perform:
1. System records Head/Chest shots in a short time span and enable flagging
2. System is modified to record Flag Hacker for any player
3. That option gets enabled with significantly high number of Head/Chest shots
4. System records average how many players flagged hacker in his profile
5. All players are allowed to flag once the system registers suspicious player
6. The Hacker e.g. an aimbotter gets manually banned after reviewing reports


How Basic Ban Works:

MW3 client on your PC plus MW3 IW Systems has a counter that checks of Head/Chest shots based on:
1. Consecutive shots 30-40 Head/Chest consecutive shots in a short time span
2. Once reported by both client and IW system Flagging Systems gets Auto-enabled
3. Only the system allows to vote and the system initiates Flagging vote
4. Any player can vote to flag the hacker, average goes to profile after each game
5. IW Staff monitors all generated flag reports and manually ban all reported hackers with very high score in their profile


Still Didn't Understand?

1. The system checks for consecutive Head/Chest shots in short span of time with built-in counters within game and online IW system (if hacker use cracked files VAC ban applies).
2. Flagging option is only enabled by the system if the counter confirms 30-40 Head/Chest consecutive shots
3. Within game system generate flagging vote and take votes from all players
4. The average goes to player profile, updated after every game
5. Players with very high flagging report score in their profile are manually banned by IW staff after reviewing


Why this will work?

a. The system learns eventually in due time can differentiate between a hacker and a legit player.
b. A legit player will eventually hit more parts of the body within 5-7 headshots
c. Hacker will have difficulty fighting because this feature doesn't require Anti-Hacking code
d. Stats recorded for Headshots + Chestshots + WH Killcams report every game


For WallHack bans:
1. For moderate %age system allows reporting Killcams!!
2. Each player has 30 slots reported killcams
3. A reported wallhacked killcam takes a slot reported in profile
4. All reports are manually reviews and bans placed
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:53 AM   #2
damien c
 
 
 
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So what happens if someone is playing with a sniper rifle and there team has spawn trapped the enemy team, and the sniper gets nothing but headshots all game?

Does that mean that player is using a cheat?

No it doesn't but by your methods they would be banned for cheating.

I am sorry but all these potential systems are just stupid, because all it takes is a whole enemy team to flag someone as a cheater and some stupid person who doesn't, understand what a cheat looks like to be doing the viewing and banning and hey presto a innocent player gets banned.


There is no way that the developers of COD are ever going to spend any time on a PC anti cheat programme considering, they actually pay another company to deal with the anti cheat system and in the case of COD games now, it's VAC which we all know does not work and will never work with COD regardless of the dedicated servers or P2P system.

The only way to get a cheat 99% free game is with Dedicated servers and admins, because all anti cheat systems can be gotten around and these people selling the cheats, are very experienced in getting around them.


I will say though thanks for thinking about it, but we all know they won't do anything about it especially considering that they make more, money once a player is banned if they buy the game again.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:03 AM   #3
michaelkane
 
 
 
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The point is to agree on something that might work and doesn't require more often updates like an Anti-Hack.

Here is a solution to your problem:
1. Not every game player can spawn trap enemy team
2. If the system allows vote than his AVERAGE goes up a little
3. For example if he is sitting on cumulative average of 0.2635 from all previous games than one spawn trap might increase it to 0.289
4. It will come down taking average on future non-spawn trap games
5. An aimbotter hacker will blatantly hack keeping his average around 0.7-0.8
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:21 AM   #4
degolegodyl
 
 
 
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Besides, man, IW REVIEWS REPORTS, the can see if your hacking or not. If you randomly get headshots at their spawn with a sniper then they will see that you aint hacking
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:39 AM   #5
ShadowKazama
 
 
 
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Again, any anti-cheat that uses the player base to detect can be exploited.

Also, hacker will learn the system and exploit it too. They learn the threshold and can set the program to stay within the limit, remaining undetected. All this time, legit players will keep getting flagged as hackers.

VAC works great if it is updated. Even the system you suggest would need updates, tweeking and maintenance.

Unless it is a dedicated server, there is no way the players will have any control over deciding who is hacking and who is not.

O'h, and let us add luck to your system. If someone is lucky enough to get a constant high HS, then they will be banned because of random.

Last edited by ShadowKazama: 09-04-2012 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:54 AM   #6
tvdw
 
 
 
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A system such as the one you propose requires maintenance as it will have false positives. IW is probably not going to do this maintenance and innocent people will be banned.

Bad idea.

Unmaintained [your system] = a lot of bans, a lot of false positives that don't get unbanned.
Unmaintained VAC = less bans, no false positives.

I'll pick VAC.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:56 AM   #7
michaelkane
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowKazama View Post
Again, any anti-cheat that uses the player base to detect can be exploited.

Also, hacker will learn the system and exploit it too. They learn the threshold and can set the program to stay within the limit, remaining undetected. All this time, legit players will keep getting flagged as hackers.
1. It is NOT player based Detection and cannot be easily exploited. The only possible way is to modify game files getting them VAC banned.

2. The online system can choose a random threshold for each game so all hackers will keep guessing. System will get improved once taken as a Project don't you think?

3. Legit players will not get banned, all bans are manually performed and average scores are reviewed.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:58 AM   #8
michaelkane
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdw View Post
A system such as the one you propose requires maintenance as it will have false positives. IW is probably not going to do this maintenance and innocent people will be banned.

Bad idea.

Unmaintained [your system] = a lot of bans, a lot of false positives that don't get unbanned.
Unmaintained VAC = less bans, no false positives.

I'll pick VAC.

How will it have false positives, give me a situation please.
Bans are manually performed, how do you think innocent people will get banned?

Lets think realistically based on a situation.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:01 AM   #9
damien c
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkane View Post
1. It is NOT player based Detection and cannot be easily exploited. The only possible way is to modify game files getting them VAC banned.

2. The online system can choose a random threshold for each game so all hackers will keep guessing. System will get improved once taken as a Project don't you think?

3. Legit players will not get banned, all bans are manually performed and average scores are reviewed.
So if I played a game and got nothing but headshots, regardless of time according to your system I would be labelled as a cheater, and it would allow other players to flag me as a cheater.

Because I am then flagged as a cheater I get someone who reviews the game footage or report, and because they know what they are doing I don't get banned but if I then get someone, who knows nothing I get banned.

I am sorry but the system is easy to exploit and to avoid as well, nothing is ever truely random when it comes to a programme picking "random" numbers.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:04 AM   #10
ShadowKazama
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkane View Post
1. It is NOT player based Detection and cannot be easily exploited. The only possible way is to modify game files getting them VAC banned.
If it is not player based, they why add something for the players to do at all? We have VAC already. Activision just does not want to put the effort into it. Hacks modify the files, why have the extra steps when VAC will just detect the hack? Even if the hack hook the program in RAM, VAC could still detect it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkane View Post
2. The online system can choose a random threshold for each game so all hackers will keep guessing. System will get improved once taken as a Project don't you think?
Sometimes high, sometimes low? That would cause even more false positives. It would still have to get set on a threshold and a hack could be made to detect when it has hit the threshold. It would then deactivate.

"5. All players are allowed to flag once the system registers suspicious player"

A hack could detect when a flag goes up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkane View Post
3. Legit players will not get banned, all bans are manually performed and average scores are reviewed.
Yes, legit players will still get banned.

"4. System records average how many players flagged hacker in his profile"

Player interaction is still a factor.

The current system works if maintained.

"The only possible way is to modify game files getting them VAC banned."

Even your system would need to be maintained.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:21 AM   #11
michaelkane
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowKazama View Post
If it is not player based, they why add something for the players to do at all?
Getting in players to interact will make the report more accurate, assuming not everyone is lying when flagging also only the system enables flagging, not always ON or available for anyone to flag unless system threshold is breached in some way.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowKazama View Post
Sometimes high, sometimes low? That would cause even more false positives. It would still have to get set on a threshold and a hack could be made to detect when it has hit the threshold. It would then deactivate.

"5. All players are allowed to flag once the system registers suspicious player"

A hack could detect when a flag goes up.
A hack cannot detect the threshold because this information is internally maintained by IW system and never revealed to the players. False positives how?
Once the players are allowed to flag doesn't matter if the hack stops because system-logic is breached and flag score already recorded in player profile.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowKazama View Post
Yes, legit players will still get banned.

"4. System records average how many players flagged hacker in his profile"

Player interaction is still a factor.

The current system works if maintained.

"The only possible way is to modify game files getting them VAC banned."

Even your system would need to be maintained.
You keep saying legit players will get banned, go through the process and give me a situation. I never said this will not require further maintenance.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:24 AM   #12
michaelkane
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damien c View Post
So if I played a game and got nothing but headshots, regardless of time according to your system I would be labelled as a cheater, and it would allow other players to flag me as a cheater.

Because I am then flagged as a cheater I get someone who reviews the game footage or report, and because they know what they are doing I don't get banned but if I then get someone, who knows nothing I get banned.

I am sorry but the system is easy to exploit and to avoid as well, nothing is ever truely random when it comes to a programme picking "random" numbers.
You cannot get banned based on just one game, it works on AVERAGE. Each game score is Averaged and based on all games players are reviewed. I hope that clears it or I will be repeating the same thing over and over again.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:36 AM   #13
ShadowKazama
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkane View Post
Getting in players to interact will make the report more accurate, assuming not everyone is lying when flagging also only the system enables flagging, not always ON or available for anyone to flag unless system threshold is breached in some way.
Most accusation of hacking by players are false to begin with. How would it help accuracy? No so much lying as mistaken.

You method would need to record from the start, not after the flag is set. If it does not record until the flag is set, then the hack would stop after the flag and there would be no evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkane View Post
A hack cannot detect the threshold because this information is internally maintained by IW system and never revealed to the players. False positives how?
Once the players are allowed to flag doesn't matter if the hack stops because system-logic is breached and flag score already recorded in player profile.
If it releases something on the players side, like you said it did (the option to allow flagging by players when the threshold is met) it can be detected.

"1. Consecutive shots 30-40 Head/Chest consecutive shots in a short time span"

That would be a blatant hacker and VAC would ban them without help. Most are more conservative about it, activating and deactivating the hack, trying to look like a legit player.

Skilled player could also get this too with a little luck, depending on how low the threshold would is at the time. What proof would there be that they were not hacking since things to get recorded until the flag goes up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkane View Post
You keep saying legit players will get banned, go through the process and give me a situation. I never said this will not require further maintenance.
damien c already game you one.

Any time you rely on human perception there will be mistakes.
Better a few hackers get through then legit players get banned.

Companies spend a lot of money to maintain VAC, what you are suggesting would increase that by 50%. Now why would companies want to spend the extra money like that? They want to increase profit, not decrease it.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:38 AM   #14
ShadowKazama
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkane View Post
You cannot get banned based on just one game, it works on AVERAGE. Each game score is Averaged and based on all games players are reviewed. I hope that clears it or I will be repeating the same thing over and over again.
So someone would have to review how many video for one suspected hacker? You know what the backlog was for MW3 hacking videos submitted by users? Last I heard around 140,000.

There is a sticky at the top about the subject.

Hackers were able to get around the system and due to the core engine in MW3 and send false information. Why would your system not be subject to the same thing?

Last edited by ShadowKazama: 09-04-2012 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:42 AM   #15
damien c
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkane View Post
You cannot get banned based on just one game, it works on AVERAGE. Each game score is Averaged and based on all games players are reviewed. I hope that clears it or I will be repeating the same thing over and over again.
Well here is how that can be fooled easily enough, I just get nothing but headshots or atleast 90% of kills as headshots and bang I am up for review and potentially getting banned.

Again any system can be abused and got around people have been doing it for years, and it's not suddenly going to stop now if it gets slightly more difficult to do.

Also as already mentioned if it's going to cost the developers more money than, they already pay to companies to provide the anti cheat software what makes you think they will do it.

The developers of COD and Valve have already shown with the previous 3 versions of COD that, they are not interested at all in stopping the cheaters.

With MW3 the only time that they showed any interest what so ever was just before a DLC was about, to be released so that people would fall for there BS and buy the DLC in the hope they will ban, all the cheaters then suddenly after 1 or 2 weeks of the DLC being released there is a security issue which means that, they have to take the reporting tool offline and stop reviewing the submissions.
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