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Old 06-15-2013, 04:19 AM   #1
LordLucika
 
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CSGO ranking system

I keep googling I can't figure out what exactly changes your rank in classic competitive. Just wins? K/D? Doing well on your team? Something else? Can it be/has it been pinned down?
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:19 AM   #2
necrophyte
 
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Originally Posted by LordLucika View Post
I keep googling I can't figure out what exactly changes your rank in classic competitive. Just wins? K/D? Doing well on your team? Something else? Can it be/has it been pinned down?
the wins definitely have too much influence, which is the least indication of ones personal capabilities/performance, since mathematically it accounts for only 1/5 of the probability to win. that simple.

hope valve fixes that and reveals the equation behind the ranking system.
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:07 AM   #3
bolt_action
 
 
 
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Personally for me the formulae works perfectly. I have around 50% W/L and I'm rarely very much weaker/stronger than my team.

But probably there are some balance troubles for parties, I noticed that people's rank is growing fast in a proper party and then they can't play solo at this level.
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:12 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by necrophyte View Post
the wins definitely have too much influence, which is the least indication of ones personal capabilities/performance, since mathematically it accounts for only 1/5 of the probability to win. that simple.

hope valve fixes that and reveals the equation behind the ranking system.
5 player doesn't mean each one impacts for one fifth of the outcome... Your post is completely wrong.
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Old 06-15-2013, 09:33 AM   #5
necrophyte
 
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5 player doesn't mean each one impacts for one fifth of the outcome... Your post is completely wrong.
no, yours is, since you havent understood mine the way it was meant.

i wrote "mathematically", since there are 5 ppl per team, and the win/loss is only something a team (=5 ppl as ONE EQUITY) can achieve.

of course, some players contribute more and some less to a team's chances to win, but the outcome - win/loss - DOES NOT account for that, so one's personal contribution during a specific match is neglegible, when only the outcome of that match counts, which unfortunately is quite obvious.
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:04 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by necrophyte View Post
of course, some players contribute more and some less to a team's chances to win, but the outcome - win/loss - DOES NOT account for that, so one's personal contribution during a specific match is neglegible, when only the outcome of that match counts, which unfortunately is quite obvious.
It's not negligible. It's just not very large.

Pure win/loss will eventually give the correct ranking, assuming that you define that as winning 50% of games at that rank. Methods that take account of K/D or scoreboard positioning will allow a faster rank adjustment, but will not give the 50% winrate result for most players.
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:32 AM   #7
forrestparkay
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by necrophyte View Post
the wins definitely have too much influence, which is the least indication of ones personal capabilities/performance, since mathematically it accounts for only 1/5 of the probability to win. that simple.
Agreed. A week or two ago I went 30:20, lost, and downranked. Yesterday, I was 9:25, won, and ranked back up. It's ludicrous.
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:34 AM   #8
TRFz
 
 
 
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As far as I'm aware, individual scores are not taken into account at all. For example, I've had games where I had a score of 40-20
and the team lost, so I ranked down.

I think the system should incorporate individual and team scores, in a 50:50 ratio - hope they implement this one day.
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:41 AM   #9
kinanischka
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by jaj22 View Post
It's not negligible. It's just not very large.

Pure win/loss will eventually give the correct ranking, assuming that you define that as winning 50% of games at that rank. Methods that take account of K/D or scoreboard positioning will allow a faster rank adjustment, but will not give the 50% winrate result for most players.
Seems like you're the only one here who understands basic stats.

The importance of many individual parameters can be diluted when taking in account the final outcome as a result. People just need to have more matches so the result is as accurate as possible.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:53 AM   #10
effenberg
 
 
 
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My bet to the rank stuff is:

Code:
YOUR_POINTS = YOUR_POINTS_BEFORE_MATCH * MATCH_POINTS

MATCH_POINTS = POINTS / EXPECTED_POINTS

POINTS =  YOUR_MATCH_SCORE * RESULT_BONUS

RESULT_BONUS = { lOSS -> 1, win -> 2 }
Where

Code:
EXPECTED_POINTS = something calculated based on the overal rank of the players and MAYBE your last N matches
And the rank is recalculated every M matches, following this schema:

Code:
RANK_0 = 0 to R1 points
RANK_1 = R1 to R2 points
RANK_2 = R2 to R3 points
RANK_3 = R3 to R4 points
and so on.

Example A:

Your team is much better -> Expected points = 50
Your score -> 30 -> usually middle of the scoreboard
Result bonus -> Win = 2

Match Points -> 60 / 50 -> 1.2 -> you got points, but not that much

Example B:

Your team is much better -> Expected points = 50
Your score -> 20 -> you did bad
Result bonus -> Win = 2

Match Points -> 40 / 50 -> 0.8 -> you lost points for doing bad

Example C:

Your team is much better -> Expected points = 50
Your score -> 45 -> usually top of the scoreboard
Result bonus -> loss = 1

Match Points -> 45 / 50 -> 0.9 -> you carried your team, but still lost, so still lost points

Example D:

Your team is much better -> Expected points = 50
Your score -> 20 -> you did bad
Result bonus -> loss = 1

Match Points -> 20 / 50 -> 0.4 -> you lost points for doing bad, with a "plus" for losing
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:19 PM   #11
aari
 
 
 
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I had to win, if I recall correctly, 19 in a row to get my original Global Elite. I lost the rank due to inactivity (stopped playing MM once I got the rank), decided to play with some friends, won the first one and ended up two ranks lower than Global Elite, whatever it's called, out of 12'ish games we've played, we've won 9, and now I'm the one before Global Elite.
I think it's really silly, because I remember the last match I played before getting Global Elite I performed subpar, yet still ranked up.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:38 PM   #12
kinanischka
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aari View Post
I had to win, if I recall correctly, 19 in a row to get my original Global Elite. I lost the rank due to inactivity (stopped playing MM once I got the rank), decided to play with some friends, won the first one and ended up two ranks lower than Global Elite, whatever it's called, out of 12'ish games we've played, we've won 9, and now I'm the one before Global Elite.
I think it's really silly, because I remember the last match I played before getting Global Elite I performed subpar, yet still ranked up.
How many games have you played in total?
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:45 PM   #13
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Personally I hope kdr has no impact. The game is a team game, and only the team's win or loss should matter. If kdr is taken into account, that incentivizes players to avoid holding dangerous positions or playing at the front of a rush, or to camp useless positions for an easy pick without actually participating in the team's strat. This type is behavior is just as detrimental to a team's success as lack of skill.
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:47 PM   #14
kinanischka
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by sincere_spite View Post
Personally I hope kdr has no impact. The game is a team game, and only the team's win or loss should matter. If kdr is taken into account, that incentivizes players to avoid holding dangerous positions or playing at the front of a rush, or to camp useless positions for an easy pick without actually participating in the team's strat. This type is behavior is just as detrimental to a team's success as lack of skill.
Exactly. Win/Loss is the only valid criterium.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:28 PM   #15
forrestparkay
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinanischka View Post
Exactly. Win/Loss is the only valid criterium.
Consider this: You some how get matched with people much lower rank than you. You get 4 kills every single round, and nobody else on your team gets a kill. But every round, that last player kills you. So you would lose 16:0, and have a kdr of 64:16. Should that person really downrank? It would end up being really unfair if you only considered win/loss.
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