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Old 07-25-2013, 10:52 AM   #1
Bobmccloud
 
 
 
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Balancing the Spy

As we all know the Spy is the least useful class in TF2, outmatched by anyone with half a brain and half the skill required to aim.
Scouts, Soldiers, Pyros, Demomen, Heavies, Engineers, Snipers and Medics can all easily kill the Spy.
The only class that is balanced towards the spy is the Spy himself.

Therefore I propose a few changes.

1. Remove all anti-spy weapons:
Clearly all the weapons that defeat the purpose of the Spy should be removed. Mad Milk, Jarate, Huo Long Heater, all kinds of flare guns, and all weapons that cause bleed.
This does also mean that the flamethrower must be replaced. I suggest a gun that shoots compressed air at people, making airblasting A LOT easier (just hold down M1). The compressed air deals minor damage, but the airblast on right click is replaced by overheating the gun, causing fire to erupt around the Pyro. This does indeed put the Spy at a disadvantage but I feel that it was fair this way.
Another thing that must be removed is water droplets coming from a Spy that has recently been in water.

2. Remove the Dead Ringer
Before you boo me down for nerfing the Spy and wanting the only unlock a Spy can rely on in pubs removed, hear me out: I believe that removing the Dead Ringer is a good idea, if it is replaced by a passive 50% damage resist while cloaked by any watch. This will make getting past spam a lot easier, and it wouldn't be too strong either. In exchange for this we must lower the cloak recharge rate by 60% and reduce cloak gained by picking up ammo OR remove cloak on ammo pick up entirely.

3. Grant all watches longer cloak time
Because of the drastically reduced cloak recharge rate the cloak should last longer as well. Perhaps 4 or 6 seconds longer. This will mean you don't NEED to recharge it, you just need to decloak at the right moment then pick up right where you were.

4. Buff several broken and underpowered unlocks
The spy has many different tools at his disposal. Sadly 90% of them are awful. The Kunai, Big Earner, Diamondback, Enforcer, Spycicle and Red Tape Recorder are all terrible weapons that no good Spy would ever consider using. Thankfully they buffed the L'etranger, and all the watches are equally balanced, but the majority of his unlocks are just plain bad.
Get rid of the health negative on Kunai and Big Earner and replace it with reduced cloak time, the reduced cloak time would be equal to the new added cloak time.
The Recorder must downgrade sentries 2 seconds faster to be worth being used.
The Diamondback and Big Earner could both use a minor damage boost, maybe just 5% or 10%.
The Spycicle should deal 50% more damage on facestabs, which puts it up to par with normal melee weapons and changes basically nothing while giving the feeling of making it useful despite it not being that.

5. Additional Buffs
Despite all this the Spy will still be underpowered.
Therefore, to make the Spy less obvious, a microphone node should pop up above his head when the person he is currently disguised as is speaking into mic. The Spy should also move at the speed of faster classes for x seconds depending on how much faster the class it.
The Revolver should have increased base damage so it can kill Snipers in 2 hits, additionally the Ambassador should deal 126 damage upon headshots.
The Spy should also have a higher base speed (105% maybe) so he can catch up with the regular 100% classes or just a Soldier that is really far away.

6. Give the Spy an innate 20% chance to simply dodge bullets shot at him
I know what you are saying: "HERETIC! HOW DARE YOU PROPOSE SUCH LUCK BASED ELEMENTS IN MY SKILL BASED CLASS SHOOTER?" but fret not, I also suggest reducing his base health by 25HP in compensation. Projectiles can not be dodged, so rockets, stickies, grenades, meat cleavers and other such things will still deal damage 100% of the time.
The Dead Ringer could then be re added as a watch with 90% resistance while invis, +25HP and -50% cloak time + -20% cloak regen.

7. Thoughts? This is where I test your faith

Last edited by Bobmccloud: 07-25-2013 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:54 AM   #2
TheLastTemplar
 
 
 
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so because spies are countered by aware players, their awareness should be countered by making the spy harder to kill? terrible logic.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:55 AM   #3
Bobmccloud
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastTemplar View Post
so because spies are countered by aware players, their awareness should be countered by making the spy harder to kill? terrible logic.
The Spy is in dire need of an abrupt improvement.
Should he not be improved he will suffer the fate of never being useful.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:00 AM   #4
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you dont understand the main purpose of Spy, Spy is THE Support class, he is not a class that should go for 6 Killstreak, it is a class that kills Important classes, Spy ( Sniper too ) can influence the outcome of a match, like 1 Backstab on Medic ( with Uber ) on Badwater last will allow your team to push last point and win match

Yes Spy can be outmatched by anyone, but if Spy is spotted, then its either because he failed to be Sneaky or just did an important kill and now he can die without fighting back...Spy can be very annoying if you dont know how to spot him

Spy with Ambassador and good aim is very deadly, even if being chased by Pyro, Spy can still kill Pyro, with 2 simple Headshots, so your thread is pointless, Spy is all about doing important kills for his team, so he is not USELESS
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:01 AM   #5
gf1024
 
 
 
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Spy's just a difficult class, that's all.

Spycicle is already slightly better than the stock knife (no, ice statues are not a downside). Suggesting a buff to it seems to indicate not much experience.

These sentences were written without the us of Insult '13.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:01 AM   #6
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0/10 trolling would not fap again.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:03 AM   #7
Simon >:C
 
 
 
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pointless/10
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:03 AM   #8
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Nothing to see here guys. Move along and don't give this troll any more attention.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:04 AM   #9
Bobmccloud
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popcorp View Post
you dont understand the main purpose of Spy, Spy is THE Support class, he is not a class that should go for 6 Killstreak, it is a class that kills Important classes, Spy ( Sniper too ) can influence the outcome of a match, like 1 Backstab on Medic ( with Uber ) on Badwater last will allow your team to push last point and win match

Yes Spy can be outmatched by anyone, but if Spy is spotted, then its either because he failed to be Sneaky or just did an important kill and now he can die without fighting back...Spy can be very annoying if you dont know how to spot him

Spy with Ambassador and good aim is very deadly, even if being chased by Pyro, Spy can still kill Pyro, with 2 simple Headshots, so your thread is pointless, Spy is all about doing important kills for his team, so he is not USELESS
Spy is clearly at a disadvantage no matter how you look at it.
It doesn't matter if hes supposed to suicide for one kill or kill the entire team in sequence, he will always be at a disadvantage (Even picking off one person is a feat unless you simply want to kill some useless Heavy back at their spawn)
Revolver isn't exactly bad, but I feel like it must be improved to make the Spy more viable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gf1024 View Post
Spy's just a difficult class, that's all.

Spycicle is already slightly better than the stock knife (no, ice statues are not a downside). Suggesting a buff to it seems to indicate not much experience.

These sentences were written without the us of Insult '13.
The spycicle makes a crackling loud sound that nothing else makes, as well as leaving evidence at the crime scene, leading to detective pyro finding and murdering you swiftly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadoo View Post
0/10 trolling would not fap again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Generic_Name View Post
Nothing to see here guys. Move along and don't give this troll any more attention.
What do you mean troll? What's a "troll"?
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:10 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bobmccloud View Post
What do you mean troll? What's a "troll"?
You gave it away again. Not that it wasn't a given beforehand.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:13 AM   #11
VATAV
 
 
 
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Spy's biggest enemy, no friendly fire.
Shooting at teammates to Spy check is easy, fast, and has no downsides other then the ammo used. Any decent player does it if not currently distracted or busy. Add friendly fire to the game and players now need to be certain that is a Spy and not just shooting teammates on the chance they might be a Spy.

Tho adding friendly fire would probably change up the game as a whole by to much. Soldier, Demoman, Pyro, and Heavy now having to be careful well in combat to not end up killing teammates.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:16 AM   #12
Chocolate Rain!
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastTemplar View Post
so because spies are countered by aware players, their awareness should be countered by making the spy harder to kill? terrible logic.
The fact that you took him seriously in the first place made me shake my head in shame.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:16 AM   #13
Bobmccloud
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadoo View Post
You gave it away again. Not that it wasn't a given beforehand.
?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VATAV View Post
Spy's biggest enemy, no friendly fire.
Shooting at teammates to Spy check is easy, fast, and has no downsides other then the ammo used. Any decent player does it if not currently distracted or busy. Add friendly fire to the game and players now need to be certain that is a Spy and not just shooting teammates on the chance they might be a Spy.

Tho adding friendly fire would probably change up the game as a whole by to much. Soldier, Demoman, Pyro, and Heavy now having to be careful well in combat to not end up killing teammates.
Adding friendly fire would be far too drastic. I am merely suggesting some changes to the Spy himself and some weapons nobody used anyways to be removed.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:19 AM   #14
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spyve/10

It would be lower, but nothing else makes sense with spy in front of it.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:24 AM   #15
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I think OP is trying to steal Hellfire's fame. Can we get a mod in here to lock this pathetic topic?
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