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Old 08-22-2013, 10:24 PM   #1
TheCombatMedic
 
 
 
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I don't understand the debate with the Ukrainian Job nerf

People were complaining that all anyone ever played was Ukrainian Job for cash and EXP and then not know how to play other heists properly. Overkill listened and made it so speed running it ALL THE TIME would be annoying so that people would actually play other heists. Now people are complaining about about the changes.



However, this is almost the same damn thing that the Overdrill brought to First World Bank. Remember what happened then? First World Bank was the ONLY level anyone ever played just to grind for levels, which lead to higher level players crying that Overdrill farmers didn't know how to play the game properly and that Overkill should nerf the drill.


Ukrainian Job is almost the same thing; easy to grind while leading to people complaining that people should play some other heist and stop grinding, yet the change it went through is now considered bad. What am I missing other than "that achievement" or "punishing speed runners"?
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:30 PM   #2
MutantMonkey
 
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I think this boils down to a case where Overkill was reacting to a vocal minority that wanted to control how others play the game rather than allowing players to choose how they play the game.

One bright side to this issue is that by forcing a more thought out playstyle, people will have less of an excuse to not being able to play correctly with a higher level attached to their name.

That said, I don't see this thread doing much other than igniting an already volatile discussion that is going on in other threads. Any hope at an actual level headed discussion is going to be thwarted by those who feel threatened that someone else's opinion may be legitimate even though they may disagree.

Last edited by MutantMonkey: 08-22-2013 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:33 PM   #3
Dr_Pillz_Redux
 
 
 
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If day heists had been made to give a good deal of xp more than farming Ujob, this wouldn't be considered a problem. Why grind long missions with less of a payout?
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:35 PM   #4
MysticalPiplup
 
 
 
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I am happy about this patch. I prefer multi-day heists WAY more then heists like Ukranian job, they were just boring. There is much more of a thrill from doing Rats on Overkill or stealthing the entire of Framing Frame on Overkill, pro job.

As for speedrunners, I think there would be a bigger achievement in speedrunning a multi-day heist instead of something like Ukranian Job or Four Stores.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:36 PM   #5
TheCombatMedic
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Pillz_Redux View Post
If day heists had been made to give a good deal of xp more than farming Ujob, this wouldn't be considered a problem. Why grind long missions with less of a payout?

That would have just been the new Ukrainian Job; whatever level gives the most EXP will be farmed a lot and then people will complain about that, ad nauseum.


The other problem too is most people are playing just to "grind and earn stuff" then stop playing once they reached "the end" or feel they gotten everything so there's no point to keep playing. Since beta, I played for the game and not for the drops. It has been more fun to play that way, for me anyway.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:38 PM   #6
MysticalPiplup
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by TheCombatMedic View Post
That would have just been the new Ukrainian Job; whatever level gives the most EXP will be farmed a lot and then people will complain about that, ad nauseum.


The other problem too is most people are playing just to "grind and earn stuff" then stop playing once they reached "the end" or feel they gotten everything so there's no point to keep playing. Since beta, I played for the game and not for the drops. It has been more fun to play that way, for me anyway.
Don't know what their problem is. I plan on playing even after reaching rep 100. Still got to solve the secret, play the DLC's and have fun. (Not that I wasn't already having fun :P)
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:16 PM   #7
Sakes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MutantMonkey View Post
I think this boils down to a case where Overkill was reacting to a vocal minority that wanted to control how others play the game rather than allowing players to choose how they play the game.
You assume this change was based on player feedback. It could just be Overkill didn't like what was happening and decided to change it.

There is always going to be a compromise between the developer and the player. What if a player enjoys infinite ammo, infinite health, no clip, flying, etc...? By not allowing cheats aren't they preventing someone from playing how they want to play?

The fact of the matter is games have to have rules and structure. Overkill decides to make changes to their game because they didn't like how the game was played. It's not about limiting play styles, it's about balancing the game.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MutantMonkey View Post
I think this boils down to a case where Overkill was reacting to a vocal minority that wanted to control how others play the game rather than allowing players to choose how they play the game.

One bright side to this issue is that by forcing a more thought out playstyle, people will have less of an excuse to not being able to play correctly with a higher level attached to their name.

That said, I don't see this thread doing much other than igniting an already volatile discussion that is going on in other threads. Any hope at an actual level headed discussion is going to be thwarted by those who feel threatened that someone else's opinion may be legitimate even though they may disagree.
Pretty much this. I've go to disagree with the second part though if anything they made it easier to get a higher level with minimal effort as Overkill Rats gives 80-100k for about ten minutes of work. And on top of them listening to people whose entire problem was how other people choose to play their game they did absolutely nothing to fix the terrible card system that encourages people to grind levels like Nightclub and Ukraine Job in the first place.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:46 AM   #9
Lulzator
 
 
 
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It's almost like different people have different opinions on subjects.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smochi View Post
Pretty much this. I've go to disagree with the second part though if anything they made it easier to get a higher level with minimal effort as Overkill Rats gives 80-100k for about ten minutes of work. And on top of them listening to people whose entire problem was how other people choose to play their game they did absolutely nothing to fix the terrible card system that encourages people to grind levels like Nightclub and Ukraine Job in the first place.
Prepare yourselves for threads complaining about Rats speed-runners now.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:21 AM   #11
Backslider.r2
 
 
 
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I don't see anything wrong with attempting to more evenly distribute the appeal of the jobs. Earlier today people were scrambling to join UK lobbies before they filled. They named themselves after C4 to let people know they had it. They'd kick people for not wearing a suit. They'd do the mission, then they'd leave the lobby to look for another UK. To me, that screams imbalance. Apparently Overkill saw it the same way. *shrug*

People can now make the decision whether to try to stealth to avoid a follow-up, or burn through the mission and risk a chase. Before there was no question what the best method was. Now there's a choice. Choices are good for the game's long term appeal, and for the longevity of the community. In time, some people will realize this was for the best. If not...oh well.

Nothing's keeping you from doing the mission exactly the same as you did before. You just no longer get a payout every 30 seconds. I'm sure most of us will manage to survive. Someway, somehow.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:04 AM   #12
Smochi
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by Backslider.r2 View Post
I don't see anything wrong with attempting to more evenly distribute the appeal of the jobs. Earlier today people were scrambling to join UK lobbies before they filled. They named themselves after C4 to let people know they had it. They'd kick people for not wearing a suit. They'd do the mission, then they'd leave the lobby to look for another UK. To me, that screams imbalance. Apparently Overkill saw it the same way. *shrug*

People can now make the decision whether to try to stealth to avoid a follow-up, or burn through the mission and risk a chase. Before there was no question what the best method was. Now there's a choice. Choices are good for the game's long term appeal, and for the longevity of the community. In time, some people will realize this was for the best. If not...oh well.

Nothing's keeping you from doing the mission exactly the same as you did before. You just no longer get a payout every 30 seconds. I'm sure most of us will manage to survive. Someway, somehow.
Yeah nothing is better than having the crappy escapes tacked on and reused yet again! It's a blast and really enhances the game.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:19 AM   #13
Backslider.r2
 
 
 
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Yeah, I'm sure all those people that farmed UK over and over and over and over again for hours are disappointed with how repetitious the escapes are. It has nothing to do with being "forced" to play for more than 30 seconds to get a payout, lulz.

*shrug* It is what it is. Our high overlords have spoken.

Last edited by Backslider.r2: 08-23-2013 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:22 AM   #14
Smochi
 
 
 
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The thing is those people still aren't forced to play for more than 30 seconds all you have to do is add someone with an ECM to the team and you finish the mission without an escape. Much like the whole crime.net thing all they've accomplished is to screw over people who aren't farming.

**You wanna run Ukrainian Job? Have one guy c4 the safe and the second drop an ECM.

Jewelry Store? ECM grab the bags and leave.

Four Stores? ECM the ATM in the 24/7 and wait for the escape van, if the ATM is in the street crouch next to it ECM it and back up into an alley when the civies allow it.

Mallcrashers? I haven't seen an escape yet so I don't know if it's changed.**

The only one that's really any different is the Nightclub and even that might be doable with two ghosts or one if you get the timing just right. Farming hasn't in any way been removed or even made substantially more difficult its just changed slightly. Meanwhile everyone gets screwed with some more bogus re-reused escape missions, with my personal favorite being the overpass that spawns me already downed 75% of the time.

**I've ran all of these a couple of times and it's worked so far without any escapes so either I've finally got some pretty great luck or it just outright works.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:32 AM   #15
Saybur
 
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People are grinding because they want weapon mods and masks.
OK implements a system to lower the success of grinding, rather than remove the need for grinding.

Overkill got it wrong this time.
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