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Old 04-18-2008, 12:05 PM   #1
bobmanJCT
 
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Cloth Physics?

Now, I'm not aware of these being in hammer, but it would be damned useful if somebody could tell me there is.

Specifically, I need to make sails for a ship - I'm not worried about them reacting to the wind just yet (If cloth would react with any wind entities it would be uselful, though) - All I want for the moment is some sails for a ship.

I tried using still models and they just looked fairly bad - Tried using hinges on small areas but i didn't work either. I'm not any good at creating animated models I'm afraid, and even if I were, I don't think they'd be dynamic enough.


So if anybody has a solution to this problem, it would be excellent.



On a side note, what do you beleive would be the best implementation of a ship control system in TF2? I've thought about a simple stern you shoot, but that's a bit hard to control, and I've thought about using small areas you stand on for left and right - But these don't really seem to be great... The same Idea would work with shootig I guess. Also, I have very simple cannons on the side - You shoot the fuse, and the cannon fires a high velocity ball with impact damage surrounding it a set angle away from the ship. Not sure about how you would go about repositioning these in-game, though, for conflicts.
 
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Old 04-18-2008, 12:16 PM   #2
Craziestdan
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmanJCT View Post
Now, I'm not aware of these being in hammer, but it would be damned useful if somebody could tell me there is.

Specifically, I need to make sails for a ship - I'm not worried about them reacting to the wind just yet (If cloth would react with any wind entities it would be uselful, though) - All I want for the moment is some sails for a ship.

I tried using still models and they just looked fairly bad - Tried using hinges on small areas but i didn't work either. I'm not any good at creating animated models I'm afraid, and even if I were, I don't think they'd be dynamic enough.


So if anybody has a solution to this problem, it would be excellent.



On a side note, what do you beleive would be the best implementation of a ship control system in TF2? I've thought about a simple stern you shoot, but that's a bit hard to control, and I've thought about using small areas you stand on for left and right - But these don't really seem to be great... The same Idea would work with shootig I guess. Also, I have very simple cannons on the side - You shoot the fuse, and the cannon fires a high velocity ball with impact damage surrounding it a set angle away from the ship. Not sure about how you would go about repositioning these in-game, though, for conflicts.


ok, i believe there are no sale props. if you cant make them into models, the you will have to just make the sales out of many brushes.

heres a TF2 map, that has a ship with sails, im not sure what he done with the sails, so you will need to check ingame, or decompile theis map:

http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/42378
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Old 04-18-2008, 12:50 PM   #3
bobmanJCT
 
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Tanks for the link, any ideas on cloth physics?
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:15 PM   #4
Craziestdan
 
 
 
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sorry not sure, i havent tried it out myself so i wouldnt know. try looking thru the valve developer community.
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:52 PM   #5
bobmanJCT
 
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Ok, had a look at that map - Apart from being horribly designed, the sails just stay in place - though he has made them look pretty nice. I like the way they bulge the opposite way to where the ropes are being pulled.
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:06 PM   #6
Snipergen
 
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Well if you want a flag animated you will have to use bones, since cloth physics are not possible in source. They are pretty heavy though depending on the detail, it's like 100's of ragdolls you spawn since its the same principle.
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:59 PM   #7
IcarusNine
 
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There are no cloth physics for Source, and I'm doubtful there's a way to make and stimulate ragdolls to act like cloth. Either you get a decently animated model, or you settle for still sails.


As far as the ship controlling... Standing in a trigger next to fake controls and having the ship do its stuff seems fine.
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:33 AM   #8
TheWallF
 
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you could try jigglebones. i haven't worked with them yet, but there's a thread about them on the forum (think it's in the art and sound section)
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Old 04-19-2008, 04:09 AM   #9
Karlos_Modder
 
 
 
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Here is a better option. If the boat(s) don't move and you don't care if the sails move. You can make a four sided displacement. So you can create a nice bend in the sails or a ripple affect.. ect
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Old 04-19-2008, 04:46 AM   #10
bobmanJCT
 
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The whole point was that the boats and sails move... I've been thinking about animating it, but I'm just not sure whether it would be dynamic enough - I suppose people wouldn't mind that much... I'm inexperienced with animating models, though.

Is there any way to create, say, 3 'dots' or very small objects, then create a dynamicly stretching 'sheet' betwen them, that would always join, like a membrane, between them, depending on the positions? I mean, that's my understanding of how a polygon works... Then, I could perhaps find a way to rope the dots together in a sort of comb, thus creating a moving sheet?
I doubt this is possible in source, but anyone know if it is?
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Old 04-22-2008, 11:29 AM   #11
turk645
 
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The only way i could think of is the way its done in oblivion. There the cloth is basicly just a ragdoll. The model has like a grid of bones that could give the effect of cloth. So you would have to packrat in the custom ragdoll for that to work.
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Old 04-22-2008, 11:31 AM   #12
Sp_nce
 
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I don't believe TF2 supports cloth physics (or even Source at all)

All the characters in TF2 are polygonal meshes with skeletons inside.

What you need to do is set up a clean low poly mesh of a sail, then rig it with some bones and then animate the bones to bellow in the wind. I think you could use a stretchy IK spline.

XSI and Maya support this but probably only in the full versions.
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Old 04-22-2008, 02:27 PM   #13
bobmanJCT
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp_nce View Post
I don't believe TF2 supports cloth physics (or even Source at all)

All the characters in TF2 are polygonal meshes with skeletons inside.

What you need to do is set up a clean low poly mesh of a sail, then rig it with some bones and then animate the bones to bellow in the wind. I think you could use a stretchy IK spline.

XSI and Maya support this but probably only in the full versions.
Could you give me some more details on that? I'm new to the whole modelling scene, to be honest I've had no real need to try it out until now.

On a brighter note, I've got my friend to do some pretty awesome concept art, so I can hopefully get an idea of what it'll look like soon, map should follow on from that not too slowly, as I haev 12 weeks of nothingness to burn after my exams. To be honest it's a pretty gimmicky map, but I'll try and actually finish this one for release, and I'll still try to balance it out.
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:47 AM   #14
dreambill
 
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im new to hammer, maybe less than 100 hours of mapping and i can do it, funny that some experienced mappers dont have a clue....

about 1 month ago, i needed a kind of "goal net" and i want it to act like a real net (physic) i made it under 30 min. the same patern with a white texture instead of a "net" texture should work fine.

I HATE TYPPING so im not going to make a tutorial, if your interested, msg me and i will send you the source of the physic "goal net"(vmf) so you can look how is built, then you can make your sail act as physic.
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:56 AM   #15
vecima
 
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i'm interested to see this... how FPS friendly is it?
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