particles_manifest for Custom Maps?

07-26-2008, 11:36 PM

I made some custom particles for my Team Fortress 2 map and I can't put them in the game without overwriting the particles_manifest.txt in my root tf2 folder, so that would mean that even if i packed my custom map with a /particles/ folder and a particles_manifest.txt in it then it would work for whoever downloaded the map up until they download a new custom map that modifies particles_manifest.txt

I tried to BSPZIP the custom particles_manifest.txt and it didn't work (I'm guessing either it loads the .GCF particles_manifest.txt or particles_manifest.txt is processed before the map loads (or as TF2 is loading initially) so it doesn't even acknowledge the bspzipped particles_manifest.txt

I also tried naming my custom .PCF files after default TF2 .PCF files that I don't need for my map then BSPzipping them into my map to override the default .pcfs, but if the particles_manifest.txt is read before the .bsp is even loaded then nothing bspzipped will work

So is there currently any way to include custom particles in a custom map without every single custom map having to fight over the same particles_manifest.txt? I thought maybe there might be some hidden function where you could have a file like <yourmapname>_particles_manifest.txt so you could specify the manifest for each map but then I figure again that the particles_manifest.txt might be processed before the .bsp is loaded into the game so if you downloaded the map from a server then the particles wouldn't work until you reset the game.

I would appreciate it if a VALVe developer could comment on this issue since if what I'm assuming is true then theres no way to fix this issue without changes being made to the engine.

07-27-2008, 12:46 PM

Here's a Valve Wiki article where the issue is discussed, it seems that maybe VALVe might already be aware of the issue but I'm not sure:

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w...article_System

NocturnalGhost · 07-27-2008, 01:24 PM

I had a similar issue with an effect I wanted to include in a Portal map a while back. I have put the idea on hold for now, but I would love to see a fix for this issue.

The problem is not limited to particles either. I wanted to make a few additions to the game_sounds_manifest file, in order to utilise a few HL2 NPCs in Portal, which has the same issues.

My preferred fix would be to allow such files to be bspzipped, and to have the engine utilize them on map loading, if they exist. I'm not sure if there are any technical reasons why this can't happen though.

A dirty workaround would be to include your modified version seperately, but as you said, maps would end up fighting over it, and some implementations may inadvertently break the original game, or other maps.

I suppose you could also distribute your map within an installer .exe, as some installers have the ability to add lines of text to a file, rather than replacing the file completely. Again, this isn't a very good method, although it is slightly safer if done properly. I still wouldn't recommend it though, and many people wouldn't touch an exe due to the potential for mischief.

07-27-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NocturnalGhost

I had a similar issue with an effect I wanted to include in a Portal map a while back. I have put the idea on hold for now, but I would love to see a fix for this issue.

The problem is not limited to particles either. I wanted to make a few additions to the game_sounds_manifest file, in order to utilise a few HL2 NPCs in Portal, which has the same issues.

My preferred fix would be to allow such files to be bspzipped, and to have the engine utilize them on map loading, if they exist. I'm not sure if there are any technical reasons why this can't happen though.

A dirty workaround would be to include your modified version seperately, but as you said, maps would end up fighting over it, and some implementations may inadvertently break the original game, or other maps.

I suppose you could also distribute your map within an installer .exe, as some installers have the ability to add lines of text to a file, rather than replacing the file completely. Again, this isn't a very good method, although it is slightly safer if done properly. I still wouldn't recommend it though, and many people wouldn't touch an exe due to the potential for mischief.

Yeah even if you tried the exe idea then chances are the individual who downloaded the map will eventually download another custom map that doesn't use an exe and it will just overwrite the .txt completely.

07-28-2008, 03:49 PM

Bump, trying to get the attention of Valve devs.

Tony Sergi · 07-28-2008, 08:34 PM

I actually wrote some code for this, to load per-map manifests.

eta unknown

07-28-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Sergi

I actually wrote some code for this, to load per-map manifests.

eta unknown

Awesome!

Can you give any details on how this will work exactly? Because I BSPzipped a particle_manifest.txt and my .pcf files into my map (which I already released) and I was wondering if whatever the fix will be will work with the bspzipped files without any additional manifest files.

Tony Sergi · 07-28-2008, 11:44 PM

just like soundscapes, except it would go in the particles folder like the other manifest.

ie: particles_mapname.txt
and then you just place the pcf's you've made in there.

also a sidenote, I should edit the wiki if it's not already on there, but when the filename has ! infront of it, it means always precache.

07-29-2008, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Sergi

just like soundscapes, except it would go in the particles folder like the other manifest.

ie: particles_mapname.txt
and then you just place the pcf's you've made in there.

also a sidenote, I should edit the wiki if it's not already on there, but when the filename has ! infront of it, it means always precache.

So would bspzipping the particles_mapname.txt into the /particles/ folder work?

Youme · 07-30-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Sergi

I actually wrote some code for this, to load per-map manifests.

eta unknown

I love you.

I'll love you even more if you work faster on it

Youme · 08-07-2008, 10:05 AM

I noticed my source_sdk/tf/ folder(all the others too actually) now has a particles folder in it, does this mean embedable paticles are drawing nearer?

Spacemonkey · 02-18-2009, 11:20 PM

Has this been enabled yet?

Tony Sergi · 02-19-2009, 02:49 AM

nope. it hasn't.

Swot · 06-29-2009, 04:18 PM

We want to use some custom particles for a L4D campaign and got the same problem (need a map related particles_manifest..). When the code already has been written, why isn't it released?

Quote:

Originally Posted by StickFigsHL2

Bump, trying to get the attention of Valve devs.

signed.

07-05-2009, 08:08 PM

The problem goes even deeper than THESE issues. This must be sorted out properly so that future titles can inherit new features involving custom content. Having folders and files recognized in-addition to original files is one thing, but being able to control those permissions while simplifying distribution is going to take a new approach...hopefully they're thinking about this. Of course, I already have some pretty good ideas - so I'm sure they could come up with something quite nice...re-inventing the wheel would not be required. I really really hope they're serious about working these things out in the future.

07-26-2008, 11:36 PM	#1
StickFigsHL2 Guest Posts: n/a	particles_manifest for Custom Maps? I made some custom particles for my Team Fortress 2 map and I can't put them in the game without overwriting the particles_manifest.txt in my root tf2 folder, so that would mean that even if i packed my custom map with a /particles/ folder and a particles_manifest.txt in it then it would work for whoever downloaded the map up until they download a new custom map that modifies particles_manifest.txt I tried to BSPZIP the custom particles_manifest.txt and it didn't work (I'm guessing either it loads the .GCF particles_manifest.txt or particles_manifest.txt is processed before the map loads (or as TF2 is loading initially) so it doesn't even acknowledge the bspzipped particles_manifest.txt I also tried naming my custom .PCF files after default TF2 .PCF files that I don't need for my map then BSPzipping them into my map to override the default .pcfs, but if the particles_manifest.txt is read before the .bsp is even loaded then nothing bspzipped will work So is there currently any way to include custom particles in a custom map without every single custom map having to fight over the same particles_manifest.txt? I thought maybe there might be some hidden function where you could have a file like <yourmapname>_particles_manifest.txt so you could specify the manifest for each map but then I figure again that the particles_manifest.txt might be processed before the .bsp is loaded into the game so if you downloaded the map from a server then the particles wouldn't work until you reset the game. I would appreciate it if a VALVe developer could comment on this issue since if what I'm assuming is true then theres no way to fix this issue without changes being made to the engine.

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07-27-2008, 12:46 PM	#2
StickFigsHL2 Guest Posts: n/a	Here's a Valve Wiki article where the issue is discussed, it seems that maybe VALVe might already be aware of the issue but I'm not sure: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w...article_System

07-27-2008, 01:24 PM	#3
NocturnalGhost Join Date: Sep 2007 Reputation: 10 Posts: 719	I had a similar issue with an effect I wanted to include in a Portal map a while back. I have put the idea on hold for now, but I would love to see a fix for this issue. The problem is not limited to particles either. I wanted to make a few additions to the game_sounds_manifest file, in order to utilise a few HL2 NPCs in Portal, which has the same issues. My preferred fix would be to allow such files to be bspzipped, and to have the engine utilize them on map loading, if they exist. I'm not sure if there are any technical reasons why this can't happen though. A dirty workaround would be to include your modified version seperately, but as you said, maps would end up fighting over it, and some implementations may inadvertently break the original game, or other maps. I suppose you could also distribute your map within an installer .exe, as some installers have the ability to add lines of text to a file, rather than replacing the file completely. Again, this isn't a very good method, although it is slightly safer if done properly. I still wouldn't recommend it though, and many people wouldn't touch an exe due to the potential for mischief.

07-28-2008, 03:49 PM	#5
StickFigsHL2 Guest Posts: n/a	Bump, trying to get the attention of Valve devs.

07-28-2008, 08:34 PM	#6
Tony Sergi Join Date: Mar 2008 Reputation: 46 Posts: 646	I actually wrote some code for this, to load per-map manifests. eta unknown

07-28-2008, 11:44 PM	#8
Tony Sergi Join Date: Mar 2008 Reputation: 46 Posts: 646	just like soundscapes, except it would go in the particles folder like the other manifest. ie: particles_mapname.txt and then you just place the pcf's you've made in there. also a sidenote, I should edit the wiki if it's not already on there, but when the filename has ! infront of it, it means always precache.

08-07-2008, 10:05 AM	#11
Youme Join Date: Jul 2008 Reputation: 117 Posts: 286	I noticed my source_sdk/tf/ folder(all the others too actually) now has a particles folder in it, does this mean embedable paticles are drawing nearer?

02-18-2009, 11:20 PM	#12
Spacemonkey Join Date: Oct 2006 Reputation: 17 Posts: 1,635	Has this been enabled yet?

02-19-2009, 02:49 AM	#13
Tony Sergi Join Date: Mar 2008 Reputation: 46 Posts: 646	nope. it hasn't.

07-05-2009, 08:08 PM	#15
TexHawke Guest Posts: n/a	The problem goes even deeper than THESE issues. This must be sorted out properly so that future titles can inherit new features involving custom content. Having folders and files recognized in-addition to original files is one thing, but being able to control those permissions while simplifying distribution is going to take a new approach...hopefully they're thinking about this. Of course, I already have some pretty good ideas - so I'm sure they could come up with something quite nice...re-inventing the wheel would not be required. I really really hope they're serious about working these things out in the future.