The officially unofficial thread on Versus Mode and its Difficulty Option.

Modiga-Disabled · 12-05-2008, 09:14 AM

Since this appears to be the communities current hot topic of the day/week/month we've got threads flying out all over the place. If we keep things in one place it makes things easier for everyone. VALVe will also have an easier time reading through the mix of people's opinions if they're centralised. They do read the forum so don't be afraid to voice your thoughts.

But please, keep your posts on topic, constructive and polite. I'll be keeping an eye on things so refrain from trolling, flaming or calling each other idiots.

Anim · 12-05-2008, 09:17 AM

People find playing advanced in vs mode fun, normal is too easy for high skilled survivors that can aim.

linfosoma · 12-05-2008, 09:17 AM

Ok, let's put it like this:
I like the normal versus fix, and I was jarateed when I was tossed into expert servers.
So, I understand the frustration of people in the opposite side, angry for being forced to play in a difficulty they didn't wanted to.
So, instead of creating a pointless flame war (admit it, no mather if you convince the others to agree with you, the ones you need to convince are the devs), why not just ask in a mature, polite way what you want?

Valve, we would a like to have a choice to play in the difficulty we want with the level/type off plapers we want to play with. If you could consider to add this option in your next update, we would appreciate it.

Thank you.

SFJake · 12-05-2008, 09:21 AM

I believe that both Normal and Advanced are viable difficulty levels for Versus.

Not expert or easy.

It should be made a choice to play either Normal or Advanced.

Muertog · 12-05-2008, 09:21 AM

Sigh. The things I miss while my computer lies dead for the past couple weeks.

I am in favor of being able to select difficulties for Vs, but there has to be a way to standardize it. I am -not- in favor of playing on modded servers unwittingly. If I want to play modded, that should be an option as well, but separate from the default options so it isn't selected "by accident".

Modiga-Disabled · 12-05-2008, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFJake

I believe that both Normal and Advanced are viable difficulty levels for Versus.

Not expert or easy.

It should be made a choice to play either Normal or Advanced.

I'm sort of thinking the same thing. If there is to be a choice, I think expert and easy should be left out of it. Those two modes are probably too far into the extremes to be viable.

ArecBalrin · 12-05-2008, 09:24 AM

I prefer to play Normal difficulty Versus, but I HATE being denied the choice in the first place. This is why people were complaining about being put on Expert-Versus servers; the lack of choice.

Valve's answer? Continue to deny free-choice, but in the opposite direction. Terrible.

EDIT: Ok I'm really getting tired of this condescending fake neutrality now, Modiga-Disabled.

Why should Normal and Advanced be the only choices? It isn't enough to say they're too extreme to be viable, explain how and why this justifies narrowing the choice in the first place. How does Easy Versus or Expert Versus harm YOU or anyone else that doesn't want to play them if Valve simply adds more options to the matchmaker filter?

Verruna · 12-05-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modiga-Disabled

I'm sort of thinking the same thing. If there is to be a choice, I think expert and easy should be left out of it. Those two modes are probably too far into the extremes to be viable.

100% agree, i enjoyed advanced more than normal.

What i hate most about the other threads is they all sound like 5 year olds crying. No ones actually bringing a calm intelligent argument to the table. I hope you'll be doin' something about that :P

Affa · 12-05-2008, 09:27 AM

Too much whining about it. It is fair as Normal only on Versus. If you beat No Mercy or Blood Harvest very easily as Survivors on Versus with Normal difficulty you are playing a very unskilled Infected team. Simple really, if it's put at any harder difficulty it's just too easy for a decent infected team to destroy the Survivors

Please note this is only Versus, I think Campaign is fun and most interesting on Expert

mouton · 12-05-2008, 09:27 AM

They should have implemented simple filtering in that console thingy that is Matchmaker.

This would have kept EVERYONE happy. People wanting to play on Normal would play on Normal, others would play on whatever else they desired.

Instead, they have limited the choice, needlessly hurting part of the population. Why do it when there are better, harmless solutions?

Edit: some typo

leetot · 12-05-2008, 09:29 AM

Offering two different difficulties will only prove to split the community and give the advanced players somehow a feeling that playing advanced takes any more skill than playing normal on Versus. In reality all advanced does is shift difficulty from one team to another and promotes the need for less teamwork and increased emphasis on normal infected damage, which actually means LESS skill necessary.

I'm already tired of the advanced/expert elitists now, if Valve validates them it will only be worse.

Matterialize · 12-05-2008, 09:29 AM

While I understand that many people prefer Versus as-is, I enjoy playing in all the difficulties (except easy, hurr) and I do want them back. My hope is that Valve will somehow incorporate a server's z_difficulty into the matchmaking system, like sv_search_key. Then we can all have our cake and eat it too.

blazur · 12-05-2008, 09:31 AM

Normal vs. is a comfortable setting. The problem with servers designating the difficulty is that you have no way of knowing in advance what this is (unless you join through the server browser). I was once assigned to a vs. game from a lobby, and within seconds our team of survivors was decimated by regular infected coming out of the woods on Blood Harvest before realizing it was expert. Immediately, half the players evacuated the server so it was back to the lobby to find a new server by unanimous decision.

Vs. mode is meant to be about the infected bosses, not the infected. If the survivors get destroyed without any contribution of the human bosses...what's the fun in that?

You have to keep in mind that not only does the regular infected damage go up with higher difficulty levels, but also so does the duration and intensity of horde swarms. Even on advanced, players spend more time in the center of massive hordes fending off the rush while the bosses can casually stroll in and get an easy pounce or tongue grab. There's no sense of accomplishment or gratification when you grab a victim who's a straggler, because they're all too distracted to notice anyways.

In the end I believe locking the difficulty to normal makes it a more enjoyable experience for both teams. The survivors have a chance to make it, while the infected have a chance to grab lone players who feel confident enough to run off. On Normal, players will cover much of the level while on harder difficulties they'll get crushed earlier on in a map, leading to shortened experiences and less dramatic battles. I LOVE IT when a team makes it all the way to the safehouse and we still manage to take out even a few of them.

I'm not buying the argument that it's too easy for the survivors on normal difficulty. I've destroyed my fair share of cohesive teams at that level. As others have stated, working together is crucial for maximum effectiveness. On Normal, a team has a chance of surviving when a tank emerges, instead of dying with ease on higher difficulties because in the time it takes to down a tank the other players have surely respawned and already converged on his location.

zerogspacecow · 12-05-2008, 09:32 AM

Normal isn't "newb" difficulty. Quite the opposite. Putting it on advanced makes it easier for the infected. So really, normal is harder than advanced. Advanced is "newb" difficulty for infected. And normal is "newb" difficulty for survivors.

Considering the whole point of versus is team work and strategy as infected, then you're ruining that by putting it on advanced. You're making it so the infected no longer have to work together or coordinate their attacks.

Maybe the reason you like advanced is because it's easier if you have uncooperative infected teammates. But cooperation is what it's all about, so the solution isn't to provide a substitute for teamwork. It's to learn to work better as a team.

bosky · 12-05-2008, 09:33 AM

This change certainly seemed to kill the number of Versus servers around. Just take a look in the server browser, even during peak hours. So maybe it isn't just a "vocal minority" ♥♥♥♥♥ing and whining about the change.

In general removing functionality that was initially in the game (intended or not) is a dumb thing to do. Could you imagine if a headliner game like World of Warcraft decided to drop 2 classes?

Even with an organized Infected team it's easy to clear a level as Survivors and still have green health. Perhaps the game was intended to be a boring race to get points, but if people ENJOYED the gameplay style of advanced/expert Versus, then it should be kept in.

To me this seems like a cheap fix instead of bringing a filterable server browser to the game (and away from openserverbrowser), or even as a workaround for having to modify Matchmaking.

Either way, it's annoying having the community split so soon after a game's release.

12-05-2008, 09:14 AM	#1
Modiga-Disabled Volunteer Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Reputation: 1201 Posts: 8,603	The officially unofficial thread on Versus Mode and its Difficulty Option. Since this appears to be the communities current hot topic of the day/week/month we've got threads flying out all over the place. If we keep things in one place it makes things easier for everyone. VALVe will also have an easier time reading through the mix of people's opinions if they're centralised. They do read the forum so don't be afraid to voice your thoughts. But please, keep your posts on topic, constructive and polite. I'll be keeping an eye on things so refrain from trolling, flaming or calling each other idiots.

12-05-2008, 09:24 AM	#7
ArecBalrin Join Date: Nov 2008 Reputation: 42 Posts: 633	I prefer to play Normal difficulty Versus, but I HATE being denied the choice in the first place. This is why people were complaining about being put on Expert-Versus servers; the lack of choice. Valve's answer? Continue to deny free-choice, but in the opposite direction. Terrible. EDIT: Ok I'm really getting tired of this condescending fake neutrality now, Modiga-Disabled. Why should Normal and Advanced be the only choices? It isn't enough to say they're too extreme to be viable, explain how and why this justifies narrowing the choice in the first place. How does Easy Versus or Expert Versus harm YOU or anyone else that doesn't want to play them if Valve simply adds more options to the matchmaker filter? Last edited by ArecBalrin : 12-05-2008 at 09:28 AM.

12-05-2008, 09:27 AM	#9
Affa Join Date: Jan 2008 Reputation: 2 Posts: 133	Too much whining about it. It is fair as Normal only on Versus. If you beat No Mercy or Blood Harvest very easily as Survivors on Versus with Normal difficulty you are playing a very unskilled Infected team. Simple really, if it's put at any harder difficulty it's just too easy for a decent infected team to destroy the Survivors Please note this is only Versus, I think Campaign is fun and most interesting on Expert Last edited by Affa : 12-05-2008 at 09:30 AM.

12-05-2008, 09:29 AM	#11
leetot Join Date: Sep 2008 Reputation: 19 Posts: 81	Offering two different difficulties will only prove to split the community and give the advanced players somehow a feeling that playing advanced takes any more skill than playing normal on Versus. In reality all advanced does is shift difficulty from one team to another and promotes the need for less teamwork and increased emphasis on normal infected damage, which actually means LESS skill necessary. I'm already tired of the advanced/expert elitists now, if Valve validates them it will only be worse. Last edited by leetot : 12-05-2008 at 09:31 AM.

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12-05-2008, 09:17 AM	#2
Anim Join Date: Oct 2007 Reputation: 0 Posts: 359	People find playing advanced in vs mode fun, normal is too easy for high skilled survivors that can aim.

12-05-2008, 09:17 AM	#3
linfosoma Join Date: Jul 2008 Reputation: 288 Posts: 5,429	Ok, let's put it like this: I like the normal versus fix, and I was jarateed when I was tossed into expert servers. So, I understand the frustration of people in the opposite side, angry for being forced to play in a difficulty they didn't wanted to. So, instead of creating a pointless flame war (admit it, no mather if you convince the others to agree with you, the ones you need to convince are the devs), why not just ask in a mature, polite way what you want? Valve, we would a like to have a choice to play in the difficulty we want with the level/type off plapers we want to play with. If you could consider to add this option in your next update, we would appreciate it. Thank you.

12-05-2008, 09:21 AM	#4
SFJake Join Date: Aug 2008 Reputation: 22 Posts: 1,310	I believe that both Normal and Advanced are viable difficulty levels for Versus. Not expert or easy. It should be made a choice to play either Normal or Advanced.

12-05-2008, 09:21 AM	#5
Muertog Join Date: Nov 2008 Reputation: 0 Posts: 70	Sigh. The things I miss while my computer lies dead for the past couple weeks. I am in favor of being able to select difficulties for Vs, but there has to be a way to standardize it. I am -not- in favor of playing on modded servers unwittingly. If I want to play modded, that should be an option as well, but separate from the default options so it isn't selected "by accident".

12-05-2008, 09:27 AM	#10
mouton Join Date: Aug 2008 Reputation: 23 Posts: 1,016	They should have implemented simple filtering in that console thingy that is Matchmaker. This would have kept EVERYONE happy. People wanting to play on Normal would play on Normal, others would play on whatever else they desired. Instead, they have limited the choice, needlessly hurting part of the population. Why do it when there are better, harmless solutions? Edit: some typo

12-05-2008, 09:29 AM	#12
Matterialize Join Date: Oct 2007 Reputation: 4 Posts: 394	While I understand that many people prefer Versus as-is, I enjoy playing in all the difficulties (except easy, hurr) and I do want them back. My hope is that Valve will somehow incorporate a server's z_difficulty into the matchmaking system, like sv_search_key. Then we can all have our cake and eat it too.

12-05-2008, 09:31 AM	#13
blazur Join Date: Oct 2007 Reputation: 18 Posts: 1,826	Normal vs. is a comfortable setting. The problem with servers designating the difficulty is that you have no way of knowing in advance what this is (unless you join through the server browser). I was once assigned to a vs. game from a lobby, and within seconds our team of survivors was decimated by regular infected coming out of the woods on Blood Harvest before realizing it was expert. Immediately, half the players evacuated the server so it was back to the lobby to find a new server by unanimous decision. Vs. mode is meant to be about the infected bosses, not the infected. If the survivors get destroyed without any contribution of the human bosses...what's the fun in that? You have to keep in mind that not only does the regular infected damage go up with higher difficulty levels, but also so does the duration and intensity of horde swarms. Even on advanced, players spend more time in the center of massive hordes fending off the rush while the bosses can casually stroll in and get an easy pounce or tongue grab. There's no sense of accomplishment or gratification when you grab a victim who's a straggler, because they're all too distracted to notice anyways. In the end I believe locking the difficulty to normal makes it a more enjoyable experience for both teams. The survivors have a chance to make it, while the infected have a chance to grab lone players who feel confident enough to run off. On Normal, players will cover much of the level while on harder difficulties they'll get crushed earlier on in a map, leading to shortened experiences and less dramatic battles. I LOVE IT when a team makes it all the way to the safehouse and we still manage to take out even a few of them. I'm not buying the argument that it's too easy for the survivors on normal difficulty. I've destroyed my fair share of cohesive teams at that level. As others have stated, working together is crucial for maximum effectiveness. On Normal, a team has a chance of surviving when a tank emerges, instead of dying with ease on higher difficulties because in the time it takes to down a tank the other players have surely respawned and already converged on his location.

12-05-2008, 09:32 AM	#14
zerogspacecow Join Date: Nov 2008 Reputation: 5 Posts: 293	Normal isn't "newb" difficulty. Quite the opposite. Putting it on advanced makes it easier for the infected. So really, normal is harder than advanced. Advanced is "newb" difficulty for infected. And normal is "newb" difficulty for survivors. Considering the whole point of versus is team work and strategy as infected, then you're ruining that by putting it on advanced. You're making it so the infected no longer have to work together or coordinate their attacks. Maybe the reason you like advanced is because it's easier if you have uncooperative infected teammates. But cooperation is what it's all about, so the solution isn't to provide a substitute for teamwork. It's to learn to work better as a team.

12-05-2008, 09:33 AM	#15
bosky Join Date: Nov 2008 Reputation: 0 Posts: 128	This change certainly seemed to kill the number of Versus servers around. Just take a look in the server browser, even during peak hours. So maybe it isn't just a "vocal minority" ♥♥♥♥♥ing and whining about the change. In general removing functionality that was initially in the game (intended or not) is a dumb thing to do. Could you imagine if a headliner game like World of Warcraft decided to drop 2 classes? Even with an organized Infected team it's easy to clear a level as Survivors and still have green health. Perhaps the game was intended to be a boring race to get points, but if people ENJOYED the gameplay style of advanced/expert Versus, then it should be kept in. To me this seems like a cheap fix instead of bringing a filterable server browser to the game (and away from openserverbrowser), or even as a workaround for having to modify Matchmaking. Either way, it's annoying having the community split so soon after a game's release.