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Old 02-03-2009, 06:08 PM   #1
DerbyDriver1985
 
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Xbox 360 vs. Home Computer (trust me, it's not what you're expecting)

This whole debate is STUPID. It really is. Do you want to know why? Can you continue reading this thread, casting your bias aside so we can actually have a reasonable and mature debate about it?

This is going to be a long one and there won't be a "too long; didn't read", so either leave now or suck it up and read the whole thing.

Left 4 Dead has become the subject of great controversy. On the PC side, you get a bunch of whiners complaining that the game isn't tailored to their specific needs, or that it was developed with console gamers in mind.

On the 360 side, you get a bunch of whiners complaining that Valve panders to PC players with frequent patches, or that the PC crowd is somehow holding the game back.

Let's stop this, shall we?

First of all, most, if not all of the arguments I read on either board are very non-factual. Let's get this straight once and for all - just because you like something does not exactly mean that it's better than something else.

For example, you may like playing games with a controller, and that's fine. But the fact of the matter is that the mouse is the most precise aiming tool there is, period. You can't argue this, it's a fact. You get pixel perfect control and movement speed varies based on the movement of your hand. As far as button controls, the keyboard is just fine - you can map the keys however you want.

Need to prove this to yourself?

Ok. Hook up your 360 controller to your computer and try to use it to control your pointer to navigate web pages. Or in fact, just do it on your 360. Not exactly perfect control now, is it?

So you probably read that and assumed that the point was to say that the 360 controller, or controllers in general suck. Nope, not what I'm saying. I'm saying the mouse and keyboard are superior for a game like Left 4 Dead... and that's true.

Now... load up a fighting or racing game on your PC and tell me how much fun it is trying to use the mouse and keyboard to play. Try enjoying GTA while having to switch from aiming with the mouse to driving with the keyboard.

Get my point yet? The mouse is perfect for FPS games. Even the Wii-Mote doesn't compare. But for racing games or fighting games... a controller is simply the best choice. Thankfully you can use your 360 or PS3 controller on your PC. If only more 360 and PS3 games would support the use of mouse and keyboard.




Another argument is that online gaming for the PC sucks, whereas the 360's online gaming cannot be rivaled. This is also untrue.

PC gaming allows you access to an endless number of game modifications, customization, technical support and accessibility. For an example, firing up Counter-Strike: Source and opening the server browser will give you a list of thousands of servers. Some have a mod that allows you to surf using the in-game physics, some have mods that put you up against a team of knife wielding "zombies", some have intense and interesting custom maps and game modes. You can manage and navigate your favorite places to play with easy. Left 4 Dead is exempt from this issue because you don't look for a server to play on, you look for people to play with, and that's where match making shines best.

While the 360 doesn't have access to the seemingly endless amount of custom content that the PC does, it encourages closer relationships between you and the people whom you play with. Instead of playing on random servers and making friends there, you're probably more inclined to sharing gamer tags with your buddies and playing with them and their friends, and their friends friends. Not only that, but the system link feature is a far more convenient of what in the PC world is known as a LAN party. Finding a few TV's and 360's and linking them together for an in-house gaming session is a lot easier than bringing together a mass of computers, monitors, mice and keyboards. LAN parties are essentially the same thing as system link parties, just far less convenient, therefore far less common. Not only that, but playing a game like Guitar Hero is probably a lot more fun around the television than it is around a computer screen. Although you can easily hook your computer up to a TV these days, it's not quite the same.

So both PC and 360 have their advantages and disadvantages when it comes to online gaming.



So far, it's easy to see why there is so much controversy. When it comes down to it, you can master a controller just as you can master a mouse and keyboard - and once you figured it out, you can be efficient with either. As far as online gaming goes, choosing one package or the other really depends on your interests... so there is no real meaningful argument there, either.

But there is one argument that is truly mind boggling and very much rooted in fanboism. It's the argument that the 360 has more graphical prowess than the PC.

Well... it can be true, in some cases, but in others, it's absolutely not true.

Left 4 Dead on 360 might look better than it would on my old computer... but L4D on my new computer makes the 360 envious.

This is the one argument that, as much as I don't want to come off sounding like a PC elitist, well... it's a clear cut case that the PC wins here, plain and simple.

PC graphics cards are constantly being upgraded to higher power. You're able to squeeze out higher resolution, higher frame rates and in some cases manually adjust the games coding to make it look better or have more action on screen. You can force the PC version of L4D to have several hundred zombies on screen at once - and the better your PC, the higher the number can be. Not only this, but for a game like Counter-Strike: Source, you can download new game models that are of a much higher quality than the ones that came packed with the game.

There's no need to really argue this one, the FACT is that the PC will always have the ability to be more powerful than any console, simply because PC's are constantly upgradable where as you can't really swap video cards in an Xbox or PlayStation.

That's just how it is. It doesn't make the console bad, you bought a console because you wanted head-ache free gaming without having to worry about all of the variables that come along with PC gaming.. and because you wanted the convenience and luxury of enjoying a good game in your living room in front of a TV. Us PC owners choose our platform because we like the endless modibility of the games and the fact that we can squeeze every last ounce of quality out of games.

So why are we arguing with each other about whose system is better?

Well, because we want to justify our decision, that's why. So let's stop. You decision is your decision and doesn't need justification. If you enjoy the games you play on the system you play them on, that's the only justification you need.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:42 PM   #2
Runningdude08
 
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You, sir have gained my respect!



Last edited by Runningdude08: 02-04-2009 at 08:03 AM.
 
Old 02-03-2009, 06:58 PM   #3
v0lum3
 
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all preference, I KNOW

Oh, BTW "If only more 360 and PS3 games would support the use of mouse and keyboard.":

http://www.consoleshop.com/product.php?productid=20688

Last edited by v0lum3: 02-03-2009 at 07:03 PM.
 
Old 02-03-2009, 07:49 PM   #4
antiskub
 
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here is another way to look at it...

http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF020-Skub.gif
 
Old 02-03-2009, 09:47 PM   #5
Darth Jakey
 
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Originally Posted by DerbyDriver1985 View Post
Get my point yet? The mouse is perfect for FPS games. Even the Wii-Mote doesn't compare. But for racing games or fighting games... a controller is simply the best choice. Thankfully you can use your 360 or PS3 controller on your PC. If only more 360 and PS3 games would support the use of mouse and keyboard.
See? This is all your opinion. No facts. Your opinion.

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Another argument is that online gaming for the PC sucks, whereas the 360's online gaming cannot be rivaled. This is also untrue.
No this is your OPINION and there are no facts to back up your claim.

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PC gaming allows you access to an endless number of game modifications, customization, technical support and accessibility.
So you have many, many, many more cheaters. There are more cheaters playing CS than people that don't cheat. Auto Aim, Auto HS, etc. they have all the hacks because it is so accessible. That is the DOWNSIDE. For me, that makes the 360 superior. The only fact that I can come up with is "there are less cheaters on the 360 because the system is less accessible to modification." They definitely still exist.

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Not only that, but the system link feature is a far more convenient of what in the PC world is known as a LAN party. Finding a few TV's and 360's and linking them together for an in-house gaming session is a lot easier than bringing together a mass of computers, monitors, mice and keyboards.
What are you on drugs or something? Seriously? A computer isn't necessarily hard to "lug around." My Falcon NW fragbox was just for LAN Parties. Real easy to pick up and take out the door. We usually had between 10 and 20 people at those parties. You know a house with 15 HDTVs with easy access? Lugging around a TV is much more of a hassle. I can't even believe you tried and used that as a strength for the 360. You sir are insane. Yeah lugging around a 50 inch plasma, 360, 360 controller is easier than a 20 inch LCD, fragbox, and kb, mouse! Sure!

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So both PC and 360 have their advantages and disadvantages when it comes to online gaming.
We know this, too bad your ideas are crazy.

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But there is one argument that is truly mind boggling and very much rooted in fanboism. It's the argument that the 360 has more graphical prowess than the PC.
Ok. I've never seen any 360 owners claim this. So all I've seen now is you claiming they do. It's superior in terms of money spent. For $199 you get a machine that can play games at 1080p with sweet frame rates on any HDTV. For PCs to get better performance you have to spend a lot more money. Also on average screen size is bigger on the 360. I'd say an average 46" HDTV is better than the average size of a monitor (what 19"?)

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This is the one argument that, as much as I don't want to come off sounding like a PC elitist, well... it's a clear cut case that the PC wins here, plain and simple.
No, you're a PC elitist who is so blinded by your opinion you think you're the only person whose opinion matters.

Quote:
You can force the PC version of L4D to have several hundred zombies on screen at once - and the better your PC, the higher the number can be.
But on my 360 I can see ONE THOUSAND ZOMBIES on the same screen as me in DEAD RISING. So what is your point?

Quote:
There's no need to really argue this one, the FACT is that the PC will always have the ability to be more powerful than any console, simply because PC's are constantly upgradable where as you can't really swap video cards in an Xbox or PlayStation.
Do you need to? You never ask that question do you? Do I need to upgrade the video card on my 360 to play HALO ODST in the fall? Nope. It's going to run great in 1080p. Consoles are displaying HIGH DEFINITION content. We can't get better. There are no 2K or 4K tvs out yet. When they do become prominent, then we'll need a new video card, but by then there will be new consoles.

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the fact that we can squeeze every last ounce of quality out of games.
and console users can't?

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So why are we arguing with each other about whose system is better?
Because people like you have to come into OUR forum and act like a jerk. You're a hypocrite. Your system is not better. It's what you like. There is nothing superior about it. You might prefer things, and you might have a faster processor or more powerful graphics card but it doesn't make it a better gaming machine. That is all OPINION.

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Well, because we want to justify our decision, that's why. So let's stop. You decision is your decision and doesn't need justification. If you enjoy the games you play on the system you play them on, that's the only justification you need.
Your last paragraph makes sense, but it also points out what a hypocrite you are. You have no idea how childish your entire post was do you? It's easily the best example of hypocracy I've seen on a forum in a long time. Congratz on that.
 
Old 02-03-2009, 11:28 PM   #6
Alaskan Wolf
 
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your post may be (as other people have pointed out) opinionated, but it is true through and through.

to all the people saying "THEN THEY WILL PROBABLY PUT UP A STATUE IN YOUR MEMORY! YOU MISERABLE HYPOCRITE!" (+rep to anyone who gets the reference) i want to see YOU make a non-opinion based pro/cons to PC/Console gaming. this guy makes perfect sense. You all just need to open your eyes. (on BOTH sides of the argument!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Jakey View Post



But on my 360 I can see ONE THOUSAND ZOMBIES on the same screen as me in DEAD RISING. So what is your point?


he gave a bad example, Xbox is definitely not as superior with graphics or Frames Per Second, this is a better example of what a good pc can do:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YG5qDeWHNmk

let me see your Xbox do THAT.

Last edited by Alaskan Wolf: 02-03-2009 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:30 AM   #7
Darth Jakey
 
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Originally Posted by Alaskan Wolf View Post
your post may be (as other people have pointed out) opinionated, but it is true through and through.
Wait, you also think it's easier to carry a computer and monitor around than a big screen tv and console? Weird.

No it's all opinions. You're just stupid enough to agree with him. You're obviously stupid, because you can't understand "facts," from "opinions," something most people learn early on in school. Everything he posted was either wrong or an opinion. He said mice were more accurate than controllers (scientifically proven false) and then laid out a lot more opinions. Opinions can't be "true," but they can be something you agree with.

Quote:
i want to see YOU make a non-opinion based pro/cons to PC/Console gaming. this guy makes perfect sense. You all just need to open your eyes. (on BOTH sides of the argument!)
That is easy:

PC:

PROs: User created content through games willing to release SDK (from FPS, RTS to RPGs). More genres for game purchasing choices.

CONs: costs are higher than a console, games constantly push the envelope for technology meaning a never ending upgrade path. Multiplayer Cheaters out number those who play fair. Netflix streamed to a monitor.

360:

Pros: Cheaper than a PC, no need for upgrades, small percentage of cheaters for multiplayer games. Netflix streamed to HDTV.

Cons: Having to hear PC users lie to make themselves feel better about their playing choices. Less genres to choose from.

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he gave a bad example, Xbox is definitely not as superior with graphics or Frames Per Second, this is a better example of what a good pc can do:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YG5qDeWHNmk

let me see your Xbox do THAT.
At what point is Frames Per Second pointless? At what point does the human eye not notice a difference? Do higher frames per second make a game better? A PC having better graphics doesn't make it a better gaming system. Plus, he made up the claim that console people even make that claim. I don't know any who do. We know graphics are technically superior on high end PCs, we just don't care, because High Def is good enough.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 12:31 AM   #8
Silent Scorn
 
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i just prefer pc ... cos i can do more then gaming on it ... with out getting up and going 2 a different meachine
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:33 AM   #9
Darth Jakey
 
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Originally Posted by Silent Scorn View Post
i just prefer pc ... cos i can do more then gaming on it ... with out getting up and going 2 a different meachine
See, that is a reason for you. You're not on here trying to say your opinions are facts, or making false claims to make you feel better about your choice. You sound like a person who is just happy with their preference. Good for you.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 06:47 AM   #10
tuc250
 
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Originally Posted by Alaskan Wolf View Post
your post may be (as other people have pointed out) opinionated, but it is true through and through.

to all the people saying "THEN THEY WILL PROBABLY PUT UP A STATUE IN YOUR MEMORY! YOU MISERABLE HYPOCRITE!" (+rep to anyone who gets the reference) i want to see YOU make a non-opinion based pro/cons to PC/Console gaming. this guy makes perfect sense. You all just need to open your eyes. (on BOTH sides of the argument!)




he gave a bad example, Xbox is definitely not as superior with graphics or Frames Per Second, this is a better example of what a good pc can do:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YG5qDeWHNmk

let me see your Xbox do THAT.
The description of that video clearly states that the author post processed that video to 30fps. The original footage was .2 fps, as in 1 full frame refresh every 5 seconds. So using that as an example of "what a good pc can do" is misleading, that is an example of what good post processing of video can do.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 08:12 AM   #11
Pauloselhombre
 
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Good post OP, well thought out and balanced on both sides of the argument. Good to see someone post on this subject without trying to pick a fight.

Last edited by Pauloselhombre: 02-04-2009 at 08:14 AM. Reason: Typo
 
Old 02-04-2009, 10:40 AM   #12
Darth Jakey
 
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Good post OP, well thought out and balanced on both sides of the argument. Good to see someone post on this subject without trying to pick a fight.
Wow. So if you mix your made up "facts," (in his case opinions) with statements of "it's all about preference," then you buy it? What did you learn in creative writing?

It wasn't balanced at all. It was heavy PC, and entirely his opinion. He rarely stated a true fact if at all. It was all opinions. He then says "why do you guys argue," when he's doing the exact same thing.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 10:52 AM   #13
Widdit
 
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Originally Posted by DerbyDriver1985 View Post
Now... load up a fighting or racing game on your PC and tell me how much fun it is trying to use the mouse and keyboard to play. Try enjoying GTA while having to switch from aiming with the mouse to driving with the keyboard.
I stopped reading after here, but I just want to say that driving in GTA 4 PC is great and I can't imagine it being much better on a controller. I also don't get having to "switch from aiming with the mouse to driving with the keyboard", as if that's a challenge or something.

Anyways, nice post.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:22 AM   #14
Darth Jakey
 
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This whole debate is STUPID. It really is. Do you want to know why?
Because people like yourself keep bringing it up! You think you have the answers when all you have are your opinions and preferences. My original reply was deleted because it appears I can't call you out for exactly what you're doing. So I'll try in a friendlier way.

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Can you continue reading this thread, casting your bias aside so we can actually have a reasonable and mature debate about it?
There is nothing "reasonable," about your argument that is any different from the "stupid," arguments you've attacked yourself.

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First of all, most, if not all of the arguments I read on either board are very non-factual. Let's get this straight once and for all - just because you like something does not exactly mean that it's better than something else.
Lets remember this statement. Pay careful attention to the words. Now lets take a look at his next statement:

Quote:
For example, you may like playing games with a controller, and that's fine. But the fact of the matter is that the mouse is the most precise aiming tool there is, period. You can't argue this, it's a fact. You get pixel perfect control and movement speed varies based on the movement of your hand. As far as button controls, the keyboard is just fine - you can map the keys however you want.
Notice his "fact." This is not a fact, this is his opinion. He goes on to use the words "pixel perfect control," but what about an analog controller? How precise is it? Well according to science it's to the ATOM. Now what sounds more precise to you? A pixel or an atom? That's right the atom. Analog signals are more accurate by definition. Digital signals can never be as accurate, ever. Period. End of story. It's not scientifically possible. Can they get close? Sure. How close is it? I don't know, but I know science says the OP is doing the exact same thing he attacks others for. Pot meet Kettle.

He goes on to try and prove his point using meaningless theories. One about using a controller as a mouse on your desktop. He should try it himself. Make sure you get a nice driver and software that allows you to edit control of the device. So you can move the cursor around at the speed, etc. you want. Once you've done this it's extremely easy to use. If you haven't done that then it's as unfriendly as plugging a mouse in and the default setting being the slowest movement setting on the mouse.

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So you probably read that and assumed that the point was to say that the 360 controller, or controllers in general suck. Nope, not what I'm saying. I'm saying the mouse and keyboard are superior for a game like Left 4 Dead... and that's true.
No, it's his opinion. It's not true. It can never be proven to be true. It's his preference. There is nothing wrong with him preferring something. However he is attacking others for making "non factual," statements and declaring them as fact. Kettle meet pot.

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Now... load up a fighting or racing game on your PC and tell me how much fun it is trying to use the mouse and keyboard to play. Try enjoying GTA while having to switch from aiming with the mouse to driving with the keyboard.
One poster on here has already called him out on this. They prefer the mouse/kb even for this. That's their preference. There is nothing wrong with a preference.

Quote:
Get my point yet? The mouse is perfect for FPS games. Even the Wii-Mote doesn't compare. But for racing games or fighting games... a controller is simply the best choice.
More of his opinion. However he makes it sound like it's fact. If he said "more people prefer," he may have a point but it would be unsubstantiated. He would have no data to back up his findings.

He wants us to have a reasonable debate, when he's being unreasonable. How is he being unreasonable? He's telling us that people shouldn't state opinions as facts. Then he goes out and does it himself. What he is showing us is that HIS opinions are facts, and everyone else their opinion doesn't matter. That isn't reasonable.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 11:25 AM   #15
Pauloselhombre
 
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Wow. So if you mix your made up "facts," (in his case opinions) with statements of "it's all about preference," then you buy it? What did you learn in creative writing?

It wasn't balanced at all. It was heavy PC, and entirely his opinion. He rarely stated a true fact if at all. It was all opinions. He then says "why do you guys argue," when he's doing the exact same thing.
I really couldn't give a damn what you think Darth. People like you turn these forums into a flamefest, and I have no more time for you. As such I was not addressing you, so kindly do not address me again. You have been asked, so any further response to me, or even about me will be considered harassment under the rules of these forums.
 
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