Soldier Melee Unlock: The Great Equalizer

Jibberish · 04-07-2009, 01:25 PM

SO AWESOME, IT'S NOW OFFICIAL!

The email I got from the TF2 Team, only two days before it's unveiling can be seen here.

Pain Is Weakness, Leaving the Body.

Appearance
A Trusty old spade, perhaps a little more well-rusted than the traditional shovel. Wrapped around this shovel are dog-tags and chains, with a knotted mess hanging down across the soldier's fingers. This symbolizes the pain and lost comrades of the soldier (so what if he made up his fellow platoon-mates, they are real to him!)

Well, okay, that sounds like the best idea I've ever heard. What does it do?
The Great Equalizer does just what its name implies: It levels the playing field for a severely wounded soldier. This is because It deals damage equal to the HP missing from the soldier So if you have 50 HP remaining, the GE will inflict 150 points of damage. If you have 5 HP remaining, well... retreat is not an option for THIS soldier.

However, this means that the soldier's melee does absolutely NO damage when he is at full health or overhealed.

I thought of this shovel with the outmanned and outgunned soldier in mind. Would our loyal TF2 Soldier retreat when faced with impossible odds? HELL NO. He'd bust out his shovel and try to take down an enemy or two with him (at least he better hope so, there's no way he's going to take down anyone else if he's at the hp advantage).

So, because everyone here loves bullet points so much, and I'm sure someone will ♥♥♥♥♥:

PROS

Does Damage Equal to the soldiers missing HP, meaning high damage when the soldier is severly hurt

CONS

Does Damage Equal to the soldier's missing HP meaning low damage when the soldier is in good shape
Does not randomly crit (up to a potential 597 damage per swing if allowed to crit, which is absurdly high if a non-crit does 199 potentially), still crits on Kritskreig/Jarate/etc
No damage done when overhealed/1 damage done when health >=200
-20% Swing Speed?

I'm suggesting this because I do not approve of most of the crazy new abilities most people are adding with a melee unlock, or the insane pro-oriented shovels like "hit someone in midair with the shovel for a crit!". Thats simply ridiculous and not something I see many people even considering.

UPDATE Judging from the overwhelmingly positive response, not many other people approve of the complicated unlocks either. Once the soldier update is announced, I'll forward this thread to Robin/the TF2 dev team.

Jibberish · 04-07-2009, 03:31 PM

[removed]

DrFreimann · 04-07-2009, 03:50 PM

I can imagine that weapon ingame but that picture looks too much like the axtinguisher to me. Nice work, though ;D

Well, according to tf2wiki, a soldiers ordinary shovel deals 43-87 damage normally and 195 on critting, so a weapon dealing 199 max wouldn't be too overpowered I guess - I actually like your idea very much, partially because rocketjumping into clusters of people isn't a very well executable strat right now and also because it's increasing highly damaged soldiers value. I'd make it swing slower the less HP its owner has (or add a similar effect), though, because else, it would rather be an upgrade than a sidegrade, making the soldiers normal shovel redundant.

Deteno · 04-07-2009, 04:46 PM

It'd probably need a bit of testing to be sure it wouldn't imbalance anything too much but I like the concept a lot.

My first thought is that the Soldier would become almost unbeatable in melee combat but on the other hand, if a soldier with three health left manages to get close enough to hit you then it's your own damn fault. XD

Situations · 04-07-2009, 06:07 PM

This isn't new or original, but I like the idea. I really like your idea for the look too.

supamark23 · 04-07-2009, 07:45 PM

interesting idea. so far the best ideas to me have been some of the melee unlocks.

Jibberish · 04-07-2009, 08:41 PM

Vote thread up, its the only way anything gets attention anyway >_>

Also: the idea was original in my mind, but I suppose great minds think alike...

the_legion · 04-07-2009, 11:48 PM

interesting. indeed.

heinbot · 04-08-2009, 08:01 AM

wow a decent melee unlock idea

kudos

Captain Joe · 04-08-2009, 08:19 AM

Interesting, but to be honest the soldier's slow speed really works against him with this. The best/cheapest would be to rocket jump when at 100 hp and swoop down on people.

Anotherwrld · 04-08-2009, 08:33 AM

This is a cool idea, but is flawed in one way:

It does not follow TRADITIOOOOOOOOOONNNN!!!! TRADITION.

This means that the melee weapon does not do what the others have so far...

...which is that it either complements or is complemented by at least one of the class' weapons at any one time.

Ubersaw adds uber to medigun/kritzkrieg, letting them be used more frequently.

Axetinguisher is improved by targets who are first affected by the Pyro's flamethrower or flaregun.

K.G.B. gives temporary, improved damage output by the Heavy's minigun or shotgun.

Sandman keeps targets steady, allowing the Scout to harm the target more easily, although at a slower rate.

This is how they have been...that may not be the end result. I personally think your idea is not that bad...but just know that you're striving from the norm.

Beef_n_Potato · 04-08-2009, 01:13 PM

I think the slow speed of the soldier and relatively low health make him a bad melee class.

Jibberish · 04-08-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anotherwrld

This is a cool idea, but is flawed in one way:

It does not follow TRADITIOOOOOOOOOONNNN!!!! TRADITION.

This means that the melee weapon does not do what the others have so far...

...which is that it either complements or is complemented by at least one of the class' weapons at any one time.

Ubersaw adds uber to medigun/kritzkrieg, letting them be used more frequently.

Axetinguisher is improved by targets who are first affected by the Pyro's flamethrower or flaregun.

K.G.B. gives temporary, improved damage output by the Heavy's minigun or shotgun.

Sandman keeps targets steady, allowing the Scout to harm the target more easily, although at a slower rate.

This is how they have been...that may not be the end result. I personally think your idea is not that bad...but just know that you're striving from the norm.

I can see the point you are trying to make, but you are missing one major point: This DOES compliment the soldier's rocket launcher. Using it to rocketjump into combat (and also damaging yourself in the process) increases the damage of the shovel by 30-40 points. A Skilled soldier could pull 3 quick rocketjumps, land, and one-hit kill an enemy sniper thanks to the damage he had done to himself. (after this, however, he'd certainly be a sitting duck, with very low health).

The soldier is all about trading his high reserve of health for mobility with his rocketjump. Why not add another dimension to this health-trading system?

And Beef: So what? He still needs a melee unlock. Besides, most of the melee unlocks have been fairly obvious upgrades to the others. This one is (in most melee situations) an upgrade, so it can't really hurt, can it?

PropelledFoot · 04-12-2009, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibberish

Pain Is Weakness, Leaving the Body.

I'm suggesting this because I do not approve of most of the crazy new abilities most people are adding with a melee unlock, or the insane pro-oriented shovels like "hit someone in midair with the shovel for a crit!". Thats simply ridiculous and not something I see many people even considering.

Flame away.

Exactly!

Your idea is awesome, I seriously hope valve considers this.

And none of this RAGE ♥♥♥♥ people are suggesting.

Luminous · 04-12-2009, 06:37 AM

I'd use it.

04-07-2009, 01:25 PM	#1
Jibberish Join Date: Jul 2008 Reputation: 165 Posts: 1,079	Soldier Melee Unlock: The Great Equalizer SO AWESOME, IT'S NOW OFFICIAL! The email I got from the TF2 Team, only two days before it's unveiling can be seen here. *Pain Is Weakness, Leaving the Body.* Appearance A Trusty old spade, perhaps a little more well-rusted than the traditional shovel. Wrapped around this shovel are dog-tags and chains, with a knotted mess hanging down across the soldier's fingers. This symbolizes the pain and lost comrades of the soldier (so what if he made up his fellow platoon-mates, they are real to him!) Well, okay, that sounds like the best idea I've ever heard. What does it do? The Great Equalizer does just what its name implies: It levels the playing field for a severely wounded soldier. This is because It deals damage equal to the HP missing from the soldier So if you have 50 HP remaining, the GE will inflict 150 points of damage. If you have 5 HP remaining, well... retreat is not an option for THIS soldier. However, this means that the soldier's melee does absolutely NO damage when he is at full health or overhealed. I thought of this shovel with the outmanned and outgunned soldier in mind. Would our loyal TF2 Soldier retreat when faced with impossible odds? HELL NO. He'd bust out his shovel and try to take down an enemy or two with him (at least he better hope so, there's no way he's going to take down anyone else if he's at the hp advantage). So, because everyone here loves bullet points so much, and I'm sure someone will ♥♥♥♥♥: PROS Does Damage Equal to the soldiers missing HP, meaning high damage when the soldier is severly hurt CONS Does Damage Equal to the soldier's missing HP meaning low damage when the soldier is in good shape Does not randomly crit (up to a potential 597 damage per swing if allowed to crit, which is absurdly high if a non-crit does 199 potentially), still crits on Kritskreig/Jarate/etc No damage done when overhealed/1 damage done when health >=200 -20% Swing Speed? I'm suggesting this because I do not approve of most of the crazy new abilities most people are adding with a melee unlock, or the insane pro-oriented shovels like "hit someone in midair with the shovel for a crit!". Thats simply ridiculous and not something I see many people even considering. UPDATE Judging from the overwhelmingly positive response, not many other people approve of the complicated unlocks either. Once the soldier update is announced, I'll forward this thread to Robin/the TF2 dev team. Last edited by Jibberish: 04-05-2010 at 07:00 PM.

04-07-2009, 03:31 PM	#2
Jibberish Join Date: Jul 2008 Reputation: 165 Posts: 1,079	[removed] Last edited by Jibberish: 04-05-2010 at 07:01 PM.

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04-07-2009, 03:50 PM	#3
DrFreimann Join Date: Nov 2008 Reputation: 9 Posts: 500	I can imagine that weapon ingame but that picture looks too much like the axtinguisher to me. Nice work, though ;D Well, according to tf2wiki, a soldiers ordinary shovel deals 43-87 damage normally and 195 on critting, so a weapon dealing 199 max wouldn't be too overpowered I guess - I actually like your idea very much, partially because rocketjumping into clusters of people isn't a very well executable strat right now and also because it's increasing highly damaged soldiers value. I'd make it swing slower the less HP its owner has (or add a similar effect), though, because else, it would rather be an upgrade than a sidegrade, making the soldiers normal shovel redundant.

04-07-2009, 04:46 PM	#4
Deteno Join Date: Mar 2009 Reputation: 4 Posts: 163	It'd probably need a bit of testing to be sure it wouldn't imbalance anything too much but I like the concept a lot. My first thought is that the Soldier would become almost unbeatable in melee combat but on the other hand, if a soldier with three health left manages to get close enough to hit you then it's your own damn fault. XD

04-07-2009, 06:07 PM	#5
Situations Join Date: Feb 2009 Reputation: 0 Posts: 112	This isn't new or original, but I like the idea. I really like your idea for the look too.

04-07-2009, 07:45 PM	#6
supamark23 Join Date: Mar 2008 Reputation: 61 Posts: 2,446	interesting idea. so far the best ideas to me have been some of the melee unlocks.

04-07-2009, 08:41 PM	#7
Jibberish Join Date: Jul 2008 Reputation: 165 Posts: 1,079	Vote thread up, its the only way anything gets attention anyway >_> Also: the idea was original in my mind, but I suppose great minds think alike...

04-07-2009, 11:48 PM	#8
the_legion Join Date: Jan 2008 Reputation: 145 Posts: 3,637	interesting. indeed.

04-08-2009, 08:01 AM	#9
heinbot Join Date: Mar 2009 Reputation: 0 Posts: 10	wow a decent melee unlock idea kudos

04-08-2009, 08:19 AM	#10
Captain Joe Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Reputation: 35 Posts: 1,086	Interesting, but to be honest the soldier's slow speed really works against him with this. The best/cheapest would be to rocket jump when at 100 hp and swoop down on people.

04-08-2009, 08:33 AM	#11
Anotherwrld Join Date: Jul 2008 Reputation: 71 Posts: 2,882	This is a cool idea, but is flawed in one way: It does not follow TRADITIOOOOOOOOOONNNN!!!! TRADITION. This means that the melee weapon does not do what the others have so far... ...which is that it either complements or is complemented by at least one of the class' weapons at any one time. Ubersaw adds uber to medigun/kritzkrieg, letting them be used more frequently. Axetinguisher is improved by targets who are first affected by the Pyro's flamethrower or flaregun. K.G.B. gives temporary, improved damage output by the Heavy's minigun or shotgun. Sandman keeps targets steady, allowing the Scout to harm the target more easily, although at a slower rate. This is how they have been...that may not be the end result. I personally think your idea is not that bad...but just know that you're striving from the norm.

04-08-2009, 01:13 PM	#12
Beef_n_Potato Join Date: Nov 2008 Reputation: 2 Posts: 251	I think the slow speed of the soldier and relatively low health make him a bad melee class.

04-12-2009, 06:37 AM	#15
Luminous Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Reputation: 35 Posts: 912	I'd use it.