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Old 05-29-2009, 09:11 AM   #1
Surrealistik
 
 
 
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Spy Knife Unlock: The Lethal Injection

Spy Secondary (Knife) Unlock:

The Lethal Injection:

"Silent... but deadly!"

The Lethal Injection needs YOU! Artists are welcome to contribute models, concept art and renders to help make this idea a reality in this thread.

Abbreviated Properties:
Level 007 Lethal Injection
Covertly implants enemies with remotely activated poison capsules without breaking disguise.
5 second capsule priming delay.

Description:

A capsule of terminal poison that is discreetly implanted into the Spy's victim by means of an oversized syringe/specialized injecting knife. The poison lies inert until triggered by the Spy.


Lethal Injection Kill Icons (by TheSentryIsaSpy):

http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...g?t=1279645539


Conceptual Renders (Thanks to Da Clown Teehee and Icanhazzombys):

Pen Knife Version:

Lethal Injection Model Viewer (Unity Player required to view) by ICanHazZombies:

Added 16/01/2011:

800x600 Version:
http://the-hive-mind.net/The_Lethal_...r_800x600.html

1024x600 Version:
http://the-hive-mind.net/The_Lethal_..._1024x600.html



Added 07/05/2010:

Red Pen Renders:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3198/needlepen4gn2.jpg

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2...dlepen4gn1.jpg

Blu Pen Renders:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5...pen4gnblu1.jpg


Older Pen Renders:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4900/needlepen2.jpg

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1...dle3assem4.jpg

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2598/needlepen3.jpg


Switch Blade Version:

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/3922/switchblade.jpg


Butterfly Knife Version:

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/5...edleknife2.jpg


Properties:
  • Primary fire implants a capsule of poison into an enemy with a quiet pneumatic hiss that is only audible to the implanting Spy.
  • An implanted player receives no indication that he's been injected; there is no sound, damage or directional damage indicator. Those observing the Spy however, will note him performing a highly conspicuous injection animation with the team coloured Lethal Injection.

  • The Spy may only inject enemies from the rear. If attacking an enemy outside of the back arc, he will simply jab them with the injector penknife, dealing damage equivalent to a knife stab.

  • A successful injection, or injection that misses will not remove the Spy's disguise though he will still perform the conspicuous injection animation that prominently features his team coloured penknife. Normal attacks with the Lethal Injection will result in the loss of the Spy's disguise however.

  • The Spy can activate implanted poison capsules remotely by using the Taunt input while the Lethal Injection is out. This begins an interruptable, 1.5 second animation. At the end of this, all implanted enemies will then instantly drop dead at the stylish press of a button as the capsules deliver their lethal payload, even if Ubered or under the effects of Bonk! (the Spy cannot however inject players that are already Ubered or Bonk!ed). Remember, impenetrable force fields don't protect you from deadly toxins already implanted beneath your skin.

    • The poison capsules upon activation instantly deal 6 times the victim's current HP in damage as per the backstab. This damage is unaffected by any modifiers such as Uber or Bonk! status.

    • A time will be displayed in the kill notification of anyone who dies to the Lethal Injection. This is the amount of time that has elapsed since the victim was injected (thanks ICanHazZombys).

    • Using +reload while your crosshairs are centered on an implanted target with the Lethal Injection out will instantly activate implanted capsules for that target only, leaving the other implanted enemies alive (this works similarly to the Scottish Resistance trigger mechanism).

    • The Spy can activate poison capsules during any non-Lethal Injection Taunt by hitting the Taunt input again for maximum style points (though this is not necessary).

    • If possible, players who die to the Spy via Lethal Injection are shown a screenshot/short replay of time they were injected from their third person perspective instead of, or in addition to the normal kill cam, as well as the time that elapsed since they were injected.

    • Players killed while injected by means other than the LI are informed of their injection status; this is to explain and clarify 'wall-hack' kills and the like.

    • An injected player can be subsequently injected by different enemy Spies; if one of the Spies that injected that player dies, the other implanted capsules will still be active.


  • Poison capsules require 5 seconds after injection to prime. During this time, none of the injector's poison capsules may be activated by any means. A progress bar will show the time left until a capsule fully primes upon injection.

  • Poison capsules fall inert and useless if the Spy who implanted them is killed; they cannot be triggered, and vanish. Furthermore, the player who killed the Spy is awarded a half point for each teammate that Spy implanted, and a full point for each implanted Medic teammate with an Uber ready.

  • The Spy gains a counter on his HUD that keeps track of the number of implanted enemies.

  • Team coloured silhouettes of enemy players with a fully primed implant are visible through walls and other obstacles, allowing the Spy and his teammates to keep track of his soon-to-be-victims. Spies can choose whether to reveal injected enemies to their teammates, and players can toggle whether they see injected enemies in this way via Advanced Multiplayer Options. A Spy with the LI equipped can see which teammates have LI silhouettes active at a glance via appropriate icons located next to their name on the scoreboard.

  • Enemies implanted with a poison capsule will have a translucent skull and crossbones icon above their head visible to you, and those on your team (does not display on disguised/cloaked enemy spies), allowing for easy identification of the doomed. These enemies also feature a similar, smaller icon beside their name on the scoreboard (again visible only to your teammates). This icon is only displayed when the enemy is directly visible, as L4D style outlines of concealed enemies are sufficient to inform players of injection status.

  • There is no "cure" for the injection other than actually dying, which will remove it, or killing the enemy Spy responsible for it. The capsule will remain active on a player even when he changes classes in respawn (unless changing classes requires that you die first).

  • If the Dead Ringer is used to feign death, all poison capsules that are not fully primed are deactivated and lost (thanks TheSentryIsASpy).

  • Otherwise identical to the knife.

  • The Lethal Injection can implant Spies with the Dead Ringer active. However, implanted Spies with the Dead Ringer can survive the Lethal Injection's poison if it's in use at the time of the poison's activation.

  • The Spy gets a maximum priority assist on implanted enemies killed by teammates.

  • Recipe: Vitasaw + Scottish Resistance.


    Death Animations (proposed by Plumbum):
  • Scout- Starts doing his pistol taunt, using the line 'alright, I feel good.' He then freezes then ragdolls.

  • Soldier- Drops to his knees, tries to crawl forward, then ragdolls

  • Pyro (Courtesy of Paranoid Drone)- Frantically tries to tear off his gas mask. Dies trying.

  • Demoman- Coughs and tries to drink from his bottle. He then starts choking and goes down.

  • Heavy- Same as Demoman, but replace 'bottle' with 'Sandvich' and 'drink' with 'eat'

  • Engineer- Starts coughing. This gets worse and then the Engineer does his headshot animation

  • Medic- Drops to his knees, and tries to heal himself with his Medigun. Dies trying.

  • Sniper- Does his Kukri taunt, drops to his knees and falls on his face

  • Spy- Says 'Well played, my friend.', bows and dies.


Application:

With the Lethal Injection, the Spy forfeits the more time efficient killing power of his Knife for the subtlety and tact of delayed, strategically timed lethal poison. Great for patient, stealthy, cunning Spies who do not mind waiting for the perfect opportunity to undermine their opposition; why kill that currently strategically unimportant Medic and Soldier now when they'll be integral to the defense of your enemy's last point later, not knowing that they'll die as soon as you see fit? This is of course, to say nothing of the secondary benefits of paranoia and mind games the unlock will engender, allowing spies to trick or bluff people into thinking they've been injected, causing them to suicide, or allocate themselves sub-optimally.



Counters:


Kill the Spy before the poison capsule primes, standard anti-spy measures.

Common Suggestions:
  • Suggestion: The victim should get some sort of non-visual indication that he was injected (damage, sound, note, etc...).
  • Response: This is probably a bad idea because it actively undermines the element of stealth and surprise this unlock's usefulness and point are largely dependent on.

  • Suggestion: There should be a cure other than killing the injecting Spy or dying/suicide (Medic/Resupply Cabinet/Class Change/etc...).
  • Response: I strongly disagree with this change because had the knife stabbed you, you'd be dead already without exception and any chance to save yourself whatsoever. If the Spy manages to both inject and elude you for the 5 second window you are given to stop him before his poison capsule becomes active, then you deserve the inevitable death which follows.
    Further, the problem with the resupply cabinet and medics as a cure becomes obvious when the Spy's hard work would be easily, and even inadvertently undone by a random Medic heal or resupply visit. This is especially true of base defenders (Engineers especially!) who will often visit resupply as a matter of course to heal and restock ammo.

  • Suggestion: When activated, the poison should rapidly deal large quantities of damage, rather than instantly kill.
  • Response: I am not too harshly opposed to this, but it seems like an unjustified nerf to me, given the weapon's existing and obvious drawbacks compared to the knife.

  • Suggestion: A lengthy taunt while uncloaked/undisguised should be mandatory to trigger the poison.
  • Response: Again, the opportunity to stop the Spy is when he injects a player. I wouldn't be opposed to a _short_ delay comparable to the interruptible animation featured while drinking Bonk (1-1.2 seconds), but a full 3-5 second Taunt is far too much. Further, this clearly hurts the ability of the Lethal Injection to execute precisely timed strategies.

  • Suggestion: There should be a hard limit to the number of capsules that can be implanted at once.
  • Response: I disagree, given that attempting to have as many capsules outstanding and active as possible is naturally reciprocated with heightened risk; the more people you try to implant before triggering, the greater your chances of prematurely dying, whereupon all your work is undone.


Credits:
  • Da Clown Teehee - Concept renders, modeling
  • Foozy - Concept art, original sketch
  • IcanHazZombys - Modeling, Blender conversion
  • TheSentryIsaSpy - Kill icons
  • Surrealistik - LI concept and design


Other Spy Unlock Ideas:

Last edited by Surrealistik: 01-25-2011 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:18 AM   #2
hireath
 
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balanced, check.
fun to use, check.

i approve.

it would also be cool if there was a special exaggerated death animation.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:22 AM   #3
IIIMystIII
 
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Sounds interesting. Sadly like most good spy ideas, I never see it happening though.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:29 AM   #4
POOPTURTLE
 
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That would be amazing, although perhaps a bit overpowered. It'd be like sticky bomb meets backstab.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:31 AM   #5
Pope-on-a-Rope
 
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I love it. However I feel maybe a small indication to the injected person should be given. Something small and easily unnoticeable, but enough to give a chance to retaliate if they're expecting it.

It does serve issue with the fact it can ONLY be injected from the rear.

My fixes:
  • Medic can heal it. Takes 3 seconds though! (similar to a engy smacking off a sapper). There needs to be some way to save themselves since spy can easily escape.
  • Trigger after injection has 5 second cooldown.
  • front/side injection deals normal knife damage (implying a small does is injected and trigger immediately).
  • Very small injection hiss made when injecting from behind.

Last edited by Pope-on-a-Rope: 05-29-2009 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:31 AM   #6
Surrealistik
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POOPTURTLE View Post
That would be amazing, although perhaps a bit overpowered. It'd be like sticky bomb meets backstab.
How so? You lose your disguise when doing this like a normal backstab, there's a significant mandatory delay before you can kill anyone with it, there's no weapon drops to pick up to refuel your cloak as you haven't actually killed your opponent, and if you're spotted, that's one more person you have to deal with. Besides, if you die before triggering, all your hard work is completely undone!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pope-on-a-Rope
My fixes:[*]Medic can heal it. Takes 3 seconds though! (similar to a engy smacking off a sapper). There needs to be some way to save themselves since spy can easily escape.[*]Trigger after injection has 5 second cooldown.[*]front/side injection deals normal knife damage (implying a small does is injected and trigger immediately).[*]Very small injection hiss made when injecting from behind.
Medics should not be able to heal it; if they could, it would be completely useless as decent Medics generally overheal everyone within range of their gun. Further, why should an individual player get an almost guaranteed opportunity to save themself? With the Knife, they'd already be dead! In my current implementation they at least have some semblance of a chance, however remote. I'm not sure I like the idea of a cooldown either, given that the Knife can chainstab, and it's hard to 'chain inject' a string of players since previously injected ones are still alive to watch over the others.

That said, I could *maybe* agree with a very quiet pneumatic hiss; it'd have to be easily overlooked however.

Last edited by Surrealistik: 05-29-2009 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:34 AM   #7
Ferocity
 
 
 
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I can see already the positive and negative side effects from it.

pro:
- You can insert the injection without warning the targets teammates that a spy is in the base killing people.
- You can chain up kills by injecting several people.
- Can save your team's engineer's bases by injecting the Uber ready medic before he activates it.

cons:
- Harder to "chain-stab" a line of people. Instead of killing the one in the back and continue forward, after you are done with the one in the back he can see you injecting he's other teammates.
- The delay can kill you if you are unlucky enough.

I love it. And its still allowed to post ideas for future updates. I hope Valve are going to "milk" for a very long time.

Last edited by Ferocity: 05-29-2009 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:47 AM   #8
Pope-on-a-Rope
 
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without cooldown it has no downside to the knife. LEft click than right click would still be instant kill.

Also what if a person suspects they're hit? Wat can they do? They need some out. It should be had to obtain, but forces them to either endure it or run for a predictable course of action that removes them from combat for a set time. It's very easy for a spy to sneak off and thus killing the spy to stop it is hard especially with the Cloak and Dagger.

As well, when watching the person go for the escape...you can trigger it and still kill them. You still delayed them and you still get the kill. And this is ONLY if they suspect they got hit.

Giving front/side stabs helps too though.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:54 AM   #9
Surrealistik
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pope-on-a-Rope View Post
without cooldown it has no downside to the knife. LEft click than right click would still be instant kill.

Also what if a person suspects they're hit? Wat can they do? They need some out. It should be had to obtain, but forces them to either endure it or run for a predictable course of action that removes them from combat for a set time. It's very easy for a spy to sneak off and thus killing the spy to stop it is hard especially with the Cloak and Dagger.

As well, when watching the person go for the escape...you can trigger it and still kill them. You still delayed them and you still get the kill. And this is ONLY if they suspect they got hit.

Giving front/side stabs helps too though.
If they suspect they got hit, they'd better act fast to kill you in the five seconds they have. Again, remember, if you were using the Knife, they'd already be dead!

Further, it has plenty of downsides:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrealistik
You lose your disguise when doing this like a normal backstab, there's a significant mandatory delay before you can kill anyone with it, there's no weapon drops to pick up to refuel your cloak as you haven't actually killed your opponent, and if you're spotted, that's one more person you have to deal with. Besides, if you die before triggering, all your hard work is completely undone!
And again, it is much more difficult to chainstab with this weapon, because you have to wait a minimum of 5 seconds before moving onto the next victim or you will be detected by the person you just injected.

Further, players have an out if they fail to hunt down the Spy in time; They can kill themselves, though this will credit you with the kill.

Lastly, what do you mean it would be an instant kill? There is a five second priming delay before you can activate the poison capsule. That's one of its biggest downsides compared to the knife!
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:54 AM   #10
Spectate4Hats
 
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Seems like everyone who responds with "but you need a way to avoid it or it's an instant kill" has never played as or against a spy before?

I think it's a decent idea.
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:49 AM   #11
Surrealistik
 
 
 
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Poison capsules can now be activated during any taunt for maximum style points and badassery.
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:57 AM   #12
Enixrules
 
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Put one antidote pack thing on each side of the map :>
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:02 PM   #13
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Good idea, perfect sidegrade (as the equivalence is an 'instant kill') I would probably not use it except for novelty purposes, I.E. it seems balanced.

In addition, I agree with the very small hiss, barely audible.

EDIT: Resupply cabinets should remove it, if anything, not health pickups, not medguns.

Last edited by Necrus: 05-29-2009 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:10 PM   #14
Surrealistik
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrus
Good idea, perfect sidegrade (as the equivalence is an 'instant kill') I would probably not use it except for novelty purposes, I.E. it seems balanced.
Its appeal will differ depending on playstyle to be sure. Spies who are more methodical and precise, and calculate their moves to have maximum tactical effect will like it more than those mostly or purely concerned with maximizing chaos and indiscriminate destruction as quickly as possible.

Also, I do not like or support any sort of 'cure' besides killing the implanting Spy. The Knife doesn't give you any chance at all, whereas with this, victims have at least a 5 second window.
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:50 PM   #15
fracticide5
 
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hi I signed up just so I could respond to this thread. I think this idea is absolutely wonderful!

I have an idea for a possible subtle indicator, how about the person infected coughs every now and then?
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