SI Idea: The Spitter

Walking_Target · 05-31-2009, 08:43 PM

A friend of mine just DL'd the SDK and as started drawing up his plans for a short-ish campaign based off of some of his favorite zombie movies (i'm thinking he's looking at Day of the Dead)

One of his ideas was to code his own SI in addition to the three (four if you count the tank) SI you can control. After spending an hour chatting about it, we came up with the idea of 'The Spitter'

I know what the 'No new SI are needed or wanted' crowd will say about this, so please, save us from reading another post.

The idea with this SI is to force the Survivors to bring the AR and HR into play, instead of rocking all AS all the time.

Concept: an SI capable of lobbing a fair size glob of 'saliva' on an arcing path; at maximum (45* angle) on flat terrain, this glob of spit would travel roughly the same distance as a smoker's tongue. Obviously, if the spitter has a better vantage point they can lob their projectile a fair distance further. To make this 'fair' the spitter would have to charge the attack up (holding down mouse 1 or something similar) for a predetermined length of time, and like a boomer, even an unsuccessful attack ends up in a 20-30 second (more or less) recharge of the ability, so it cannot be spammed. Furthermore, like Survivor's weapons, movement would impair aim for the SI player. Obviously, this would have to be play tested for balance.

The Spitter would have health in the area of the hunter, but have movement speed similar or less than that of a smoker. As for helping the survivor find it, a 'slurping' noise when moving (i personally envision the sound you make when your mouth is full of freezing from the dentist...) and a very loud 'hocking a loogie' noise when the Spitter 'fires'.

Possible effects of getting "slimed" or "goober'd": The best that myself and my friend came up with was to have vision impaired in a similar fashion to a boomer attack, however getting hit would reduce movement speed for 3-8 seconds and cause low damage (3-5hp). A possible interesting mechanic would be to have a further 1-10 hp worth of damage caused by moving while under the effects of the Spitter's ability. When discussing how much a survivor would be slowed, it was decided that 'green' and 'yellow' health level survivors would be slowed to a 'red' health level run and that 'red' health level survivors would be slowed to a 'crouch' level slow walk, or roughly half the speed of a 'red' health level run.

This means that it is possible to 'blind' a survivor and impair their movement, but cause relatively low damage.

The reasoning behind this SI type would be to provide the SI with a better long range class that is not quite as fragile as the smoker and can level a bit of hurt at a distance, forcing survivor groups to carry at least one HR or AR (making better use of Tier 2 weapons) and to help cut down on 'rushing' as if one gets hit and left behind, they're vulnerable to boomers, hunters or even a horde.

I'll welcome any constructive comments, but please leave flaming and trolling out of this thread. this is NOT a 'valve should do this' thread, we're talking about a partial conversion modification that someone is looking at doing.

jstef · 06-01-2009, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walking_Target

A friend of mine just DL'd the SDK and as started drawing up his plans for a short-ish campaign based off of some of his favorite zombie movies (i'm thinking he's looking at Day of the Dead)

One of his ideas was to code his own SI in addition to the three (four if you count the tank) SI you can control.

Then I guess your friend is drawing this campaign with VS game in mind.
What about co-op? I'd rather have a less short-is, full campaign with your new SI as a replacement for smoker/boomer.
Let us know

.

OfficerBrando · 06-01-2009, 06:31 AM

So basically.. you combined a boomer and a smoker?

RugbyOddjob · 06-01-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OfficerBrando

So basically.. you combined a boomer and a smoker?

SMOOMER

OR

BOOKER

Sounds OK I suppose but balancing will be required. Not to nerf it but to ensure if fits in with any SI you decide to keep.

Let us all see what it looks like when you get to that stage.

Narroc · 06-01-2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OfficerBrando

So basically.. you combined a boomer and a smoker?

Insofar as it doesn't pull people with a tongue and the spit doesn't draw zombies. Then yes, it's exactly like a boomer and a smoker combined.

Deyna · 06-01-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walking_Target

I know that the 'No new SI are needed or wanted'.

Changed one letter, removed some stuff, and now it's fine. Sorry, work on a better idea.

jon_the_d · 06-01-2009, 07:43 AM

^Officer Brando, I love how people are so quick to dismiss ideas.

there's no horde summoning (main boomer feature)
there's no survivor dragging/relocation/incapacitation (main smoker feature)

the projectile comes out of the things mouth, and it blinds them temporarily = boomer
it does it from long range = smoker.

you've ignored the main features of the boomer and smoker and picked up on minor similarities and then just made your ridiculous sarcastic comment.

do you actually think your comment has any merit? seems like just another cheap shot for the sake of it.

--------

Anyway, as to the idea.

If range was determined by a trajectory, what would happen indoors? surely he'd need to be really close. no down-the-corridor shots?

also, the boomer has a long recharge because of the massive horde that a successful hit will call in, and occupy the survivors for a good 20 seconds.

your spitter will only blind them a bit and slow them down? that's not a massive threat to them... no need for the long recharge.

Especially because unlike the close range spray of vomit and possible explosion a boomer can use to cover the survivors, the spitter only has one long distance shot that requires a trajectory? it's gonna be really hard to hit. does the projectile have a large area of effect? could it cover 4 survivors fairly close together?

If it's hard to hit (arcing trajectories right takes a bit of getting used to, plus survivor movement), and you can only realistically hope to hit one survivor at a time, and there's a long recharge between each spit whether you hit or miss, and even when you do finally manage to hit one, they just get a bit blind and a bit slow, I think the spitter is gonna be really under powered, and not much use at all.

the recharge needs to be shorter, or the area of effect needs to be bigger, AND the actual effect and problem caused to the survivors who get hit needs to be more of a danger to them.

how about reducing recharge to 5 seconds, keep it a baseball sized projectile that will only ever hit one survivor at a time. Then make it blind them and slow them down for 8 seconds, and deal 8 dmg.

The pause and warning before firing gives the survivors time to dodge the shot or shoot the spitter, and there could be a slight pause after firing where he can't move, like the smoker, to give the survivors time to take him out. There should be 3 survivors to try to quickly kill it even if one of them does get hit. So basically, if the survivor team are paying attention, the spitter won't be much of a threat on his own, as the case should be. He's better off trying to cause a hold up for his SI buddies, or to attack all together hindering survivors and dealing damage when they're getting attacked by a horde and hunters/smokers.

---

So, as you've proposed, I think it would be a bit useless. My suggestions could make it just about right. let me know what you think.

Walking_Target · 06-01-2009, 08:25 AM

I'll show him that post Jon, he'll probably be interested in what you've got to say

I think that this would fit in as a 'harrassing' class that just makes life difficult for survivors. I mean, having one guy slowed down in the wrong spot in a lot of campaigns makes for a dead survivor, and if there's a tank on the loose, one guy is pretty screwed right from the get go, hence the long respawn. I'd like to see a knockback effect from getting hit, and maybe have a 'splash area' where if you're standing too close to a hit, you get blinded too (but not damaged). That would be a great counter to stacking to a certain degree.

As for the people without anything positive or helpful to say... why bother? it's not like this is being suggested for a official update, but a partial game modification that you would never need to look at or download. so why all the hate?

Killuminati91 · 06-01-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walking_Target

The idea with this SI is to force the Survivors to bring the AR and HR into play, instead of rocking all AS all the time.

thats when i stopped to read... WHAT?

Ins0mniac · 06-01-2009, 08:58 AM

How does it incap survivors? You may have noticed all infected can take out a survivor if they run off alone.

H.Gecko · 06-01-2009, 09:15 AM

How about removing the lack-lustre damage component entirely, but adding other utility stuff to it, perhaps have no melee attacks at all, but have 2 different types of spit, one one a long cooldown that completely immobilizes the target for say, 8 seconds or so and halves the time it takes for their temporary health (if they have any) to tick down (could that even be coded?). It would allow for some pretty good setups for big hunter pounces, and a variety of other situations where coordination is the name of the game.

The other spit could be just as you described, but with a slightly shorter cool down, say 20-30% longer than the duration of the effect.

Perhaps the long cooldown spit could increase all damage dealt to the targets for the duration by 10%, and the shorter version by 5%.

jstef · 06-01-2009, 09:28 AM

A couple of random thoughts in random order

Let me just say that slowing down survivors it often what CI are there for. (obviously I am not thinking about VS game)

Then...

Does the Sooker

claws survivors at close distance?

Speed is reduced because "saliva" is sticky? Hmm. Then a spitted survivor is slowed down because he gets stuck for a while to floor/walls...
Maybe other survivors who try to help him, or just get too close, can stick to him and slow down as well?

This "don't touch me, I'm sticky" concept would be kinda new

Is there something I can do for spitted/stuck 2gether mates, other than watch their back? What if i shove them off?

Maybe there's no need for hp loss

Charlotte :) · 06-01-2009, 09:30 AM

Seems kind of useless to be honest.

Robert Neville · 06-01-2009, 09:35 AM

While I would love to see a new SI, I think this one will be a disadvantage to the SI group as it does not have an incap ability like the Hunter it will likely be replacing. Heck, on some maps teams suicide their Boomer to get another Hunter. I could see that frequently happening with this SI also.

jstef · 06-01-2009, 09:48 AM

Comeon dont think of versus only. Try to see this as a custom content for a custom campaign and maybe it's worth the effort.
Besides, I think that should you ever play this SI and your team lose, everyone will blame the smoomer project for being unbalanced in the first place

05-31-2009, 08:43 PM	#1
Walking_Target Join Date: May 2009 Reputation: 61 Posts: 292	SI Idea: The Spitter A friend of mine just DL'd the SDK and as started drawing up his plans for a short-ish campaign based off of some of his favorite zombie movies (i'm thinking he's looking at Day of the Dead) One of his ideas was to code his own SI in addition to the three (four if you count the tank) SI you can control. After spending an hour chatting about it, we came up with the idea of 'The Spitter' I know what the 'No new SI are needed or wanted' crowd will say about this, so please, save us from reading another post. The idea with this SI is to force the Survivors to bring the AR and HR into play, instead of rocking all AS all the time. Concept: an SI capable of lobbing a fair size glob of 'saliva' on an arcing path; at maximum (45* angle) on flat terrain, this glob of spit would travel roughly the same distance as a smoker's tongue. Obviously, if the spitter has a better vantage point they can lob their projectile a fair distance further. To make this 'fair' the spitter would have to charge the attack up (holding down mouse 1 or something similar) for a predetermined length of time, and like a boomer, even an unsuccessful attack ends up in a 20-30 second (more or less) recharge of the ability, so it cannot be spammed. Furthermore, like Survivor's weapons, movement would impair aim for the SI player. Obviously, this would have to be play tested for balance. The Spitter would have health in the area of the hunter, but have movement speed similar or less than that of a smoker. As for helping the survivor find it, a 'slurping' noise when moving (i personally envision the sound you make when your mouth is full of freezing from the dentist...) and a very loud 'hocking a loogie' noise when the Spitter 'fires'. Possible effects of getting "slimed" or "goober'd": The best that myself and my friend came up with was to have vision impaired in a similar fashion to a boomer attack, however getting hit would reduce movement speed for 3-8 seconds and cause low damage (3-5hp). A possible interesting mechanic would be to have a further 1-10 hp worth of damage caused by moving while under the effects of the Spitter's ability. When discussing how much a survivor would be slowed, it was decided that 'green' and 'yellow' health level survivors would be slowed to a 'red' health level run and that 'red' health level survivors would be slowed to a 'crouch' level slow walk, or roughly half the speed of a 'red' health level run. This means that it is possible to 'blind' a survivor and impair their movement, but cause relatively low damage. The reasoning behind this SI type would be to provide the SI with a better long range class that is not quite as fragile as the smoker and can level a bit of hurt at a distance, forcing survivor groups to carry at least one HR or AR (making better use of Tier 2 weapons) and to help cut down on 'rushing' as if one gets hit and left behind, they're vulnerable to boomers, hunters or even a horde. I'll welcome any constructive comments, but please leave flaming and trolling out of this thread. this is NOT a 'valve should do this' thread, we're talking about a partial conversion modification that someone is looking at doing.

06-01-2009, 07:43 AM	#7
jon_the_d Join Date: Nov 2008 Reputation: 104 Posts: 1,205	^Officer Brando, I love how people are so quick to dismiss ideas. there's no horde summoning (main boomer feature) there's no survivor dragging/relocation/incapacitation (main smoker feature) the projectile comes out of the things mouth, and it blinds them temporarily = boomer it does it from long range = smoker. you've ignored the main features of the boomer and smoker and picked up on minor similarities and then just made your ridiculous sarcastic comment. do you actually think your comment has any merit? seems like just another cheap shot for the sake of it. -------- Anyway, as to the idea. If range was determined by a trajectory, what would happen indoors? surely he'd need to be really close. no down-the-corridor shots? also, the boomer has a long recharge because of the massive horde that a successful hit will call in, and occupy the survivors for a good 20 seconds. your spitter will only blind them a bit and slow them down? that's not a massive threat to them... no need for the long recharge. Especially because unlike the close range spray of vomit and possible explosion a boomer can use to cover the survivors, the spitter only has one long distance shot that requires a trajectory? it's gonna be really hard to hit. does the projectile have a large area of effect? could it cover 4 survivors fairly close together? If it's hard to hit (arcing trajectories right takes a bit of getting used to, plus survivor movement), and you can only realistically hope to hit one survivor at a time, and there's a long recharge between each spit whether you hit or miss, and even when you do finally manage to hit one, they just get a bit blind and a bit slow, I think the spitter is gonna be really under powered, and not much use at all. the recharge needs to be shorter, or the area of effect needs to be bigger, AND the actual effect and problem caused to the survivors who get hit needs to be more of a danger to them. how about reducing recharge to 5 seconds, keep it a baseball sized projectile that will only ever hit one survivor at a time. Then make it blind them and slow them down for 8 seconds, and deal 8 dmg. The pause and warning before firing gives the survivors time to dodge the shot or shoot the spitter, and there could be a slight pause after firing where he can't move, like the smoker, to give the survivors time to take him out. There should be 3 survivors to try to quickly kill it even if one of them does get hit. So basically, if the survivor team are paying attention, the spitter won't be much of a threat on his own, as the case should be. He's better off trying to cause a hold up for his SI buddies, or to attack all together hindering survivors and dealing damage when they're getting attacked by a horde and hunters/smokers. --- So, as you've proposed, I think it would be a bit useless. My suggestions could make it just about right. let me know what you think. Last edited by jon_the_d : 06-01-2009 at 07:49 AM.

06-01-2009, 09:28 AM	#12
jstef Join Date: Apr 2009 Reputation: 3 Posts: 257	A couple of random thoughts in random order Let me just say that slowing down survivors it often what CI are there for. (obviously I am not thinking about VS game) Then... Does the Sooker claws survivors at close distance? Speed is reduced because "saliva" is sticky? Hmm. Then a spitted survivor is slowed down because he gets stuck for a while to floor/walls... Maybe other survivors who try to help him, or just get too close, can stick to him and slow down as well? This "don't touch me, I'm sticky" concept would be kinda new Is there something I can do for spitted/stuck 2gether mates, other than watch their back? What if i shove them off? Maybe there's no need for hp loss Last edited by jstef : 06-01-2009 at 09:30 AM.

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06-01-2009, 06:31 AM	#3
OfficerBrando Join Date: Feb 2009 Reputation: 8 Posts: 186	So basically.. you combined a boomer and a smoker?

06-01-2009, 08:25 AM	#8
Walking_Target Join Date: May 2009 Reputation: 61 Posts: 292	I'll show him that post Jon, he'll probably be interested in what you've got to say I think that this would fit in as a 'harrassing' class that just makes life difficult for survivors. I mean, having one guy slowed down in the wrong spot in a lot of campaigns makes for a dead survivor, and if there's a tank on the loose, one guy is pretty screwed right from the get go, hence the long respawn. I'd like to see a knockback effect from getting hit, and maybe have a 'splash area' where if you're standing too close to a hit, you get blinded too (but not damaged). That would be a great counter to stacking to a certain degree. As for the people without anything positive or helpful to say... why bother? it's not like this is being suggested for a official update, but a partial game modification that you would never need to look at or download. so why all the hate?

06-01-2009, 08:58 AM	#10
Ins0mniac Join Date: Nov 2008 Reputation: 7 Posts: 260	How does it incap survivors? You may have noticed all infected can take out a survivor if they run off alone.

06-01-2009, 09:15 AM	#11
H.Gecko Join Date: Apr 2009 Reputation: 0 Posts: 26	How about removing the lack-lustre damage component entirely, but adding other utility stuff to it, perhaps have no melee attacks at all, but have 2 different types of spit, one one a long cooldown that completely immobilizes the target for say, 8 seconds or so and halves the time it takes for their temporary health (if they have any) to tick down (could that even be coded?). It would allow for some pretty good setups for big hunter pounces, and a variety of other situations where coordination is the name of the game. The other spit could be just as you described, but with a slightly shorter cool down, say 20-30% longer than the duration of the effect. Perhaps the long cooldown spit could increase all damage dealt to the targets for the duration by 10%, and the shorter version by 5%.

06-01-2009, 09:30 AM	#13
Charlotte :) Banned Join Date: May 2009 Reputation: 4 Posts: 347	Seems kind of useless to be honest.

06-01-2009, 09:35 AM	#14
Robert Neville Join Date: Dec 2008 Reputation: 1 Posts: 36	While I would love to see a new SI, I think this one will be a disadvantage to the SI group as it does not have an incap ability like the Hunter it will likely be replacing. Heck, on some maps teams suicide their Boomer to get another Hunter. I could see that frequently happening with this SI also.

06-01-2009, 09:48 AM	#15
jstef Join Date: Apr 2009 Reputation: 3 Posts: 257	Comeon dont think of versus only. Try to see this as a custom content for a custom campaign and maybe it's worth the effort. Besides, I think that should you ever play this SI and your team lose, everyone will blame the smoomer project for being unbalanced in the first place