Valve: On Idling and Punishment

[slayerofmuffins]

I have posted this before, but it got eaten by the megathread, and I got a positive reaction last time so I think this deserves a second chance.

As you're all no doubt aware, Valve have decided to punish all the idlers by removing their idled weapons.

My question to Valve is why? What is the point in using such heavy handed tactics on such an enormous percentage (4.5% is a misleading representation, since that number includes people who bought the Orange Box and don't play TF2, and people who have stopped playing.) of your playerbase?

Valve always used to be an innovative, widely loved company that was famous for listening to its playerbase. It may still be innovative and widely loved, but I'm sorry - this sort of tactic used to deter idlers sounds like something EA would do. It is ill-thought out and will have few noticeable effects on the number of people idling.

Let me explain why.

Soon after the Spy/Sniper update, there came the release of a famous map - idle. Valve had come up with one of the worst (in terms of incentives) reward granting systems in computer game history - a non discriminatory, perfectly random system. At the time, people only cared about the six new weapons, and eventually Valve caved and gave us back the milestone achievements. But not before we'd all witnessed the server list completely clogged with idling servers... I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum visited one at least once.

Once everyone had got their weapons, attention switched to the hats. The premise was simple - after a couple of months, most people will have at least one hat. Few will have the hat for their preferred class. So people will trade to get the hat they want. It's a good premise, marred by one, obvious flaw. THEY NEVER RELEASED THE DAMN TRADING SYSTEM. And this is where it all fell down. Knowing Valve, the trading system could take many more months to implement - so the people took matters into their own hands. Drunken_F00l created his idle program, which garnered massive attention. Idle servers decreased in numbers until there are now only 3 major ones...all belonging to Drunken_F00l. Instead of trading for the hats they wanted, people would idle in the hope of finding one.

Valve's complete and utter failure in this respect is clear. Up to 10 000 (!!!) people used the idling program. As a percentage of regular TF2 players, this is massive. And it's not even as if Valve was the victim of unforeseen consequences. Any fool could have told them that if they release a perfectly random system, the ingenious community will find a way of doing the least possible for their rewards. Scientists have done tests that indicate propensity towards cheating is not an inherent trait but is influenced by circumstances (credit: MistahFixit.) With milestone achievements, we had the achievement servers. With the new system, it was the idle program. Valve, recognising their failure and to buy themselves more time, released 21 new hats to ensure that even the most hardcore idlers had no chance of getting near to all the hats. But all this did was attract EVEN MORE people to the idling program.

So, for a few weeks, things were in limbo. The community was split between idlers and non idlers. Valve was clearly in a hole - as shown by this extract from an e mail. (credit to Majestic Bean for trawling through the forum to find this.)

Originally Posted by Robin Walker

Any data we gather from servers can be faked, and would be faked as soon as people worked out what we were using to determine drops. The idle server is essentially "cheating", but they're not able to earn items any faster than someone who's playing during that time, which is something they would be able to do if we added performance related rewards.

In so few lines, Robin succinctly evaluated the entire issue. Valve didn't think through the system before they released it, but they damn well can't unrelease it. In a completely random system, everyone has an equal chance (though idlers get more chances.) In a performance based system, the most efficient farmer wins. At this point, Valve showed a (with hindisght, deceptively) intelligent view on the issue, which I'll summarise.

• In order to not break our promises and principles (ie, not selling them for money), the fairest way of distributing hats is at random.
  
• Everyone has an equal chance to get a hat, but the people who play for longer have more chances. The only way to maximise your chances is to play/idle 24/7.
  
• The random system is the lesser of two evils. With this system, people play when they want to play, and idle when they don't. In a performance based system, people would farm until they get what they want (which would harm the community that actually wants to play.)
  
• So we won't do anything about it.

But now Valve has broken the stability we had before. They're going to punish people who idle.

But wait! There's a flaw! Now, I'm not going to insult Valve's intelligence by saying they can't differentiate between the idle program and a server. But as Robin Walker said "any data we gather from servers can be faked"

Let me evaluate that. ALL THIS WILL ACHIEVE IS TO FORCE IDLERS TO FREQUENT IDLE SERVERS RATHER THAN USE THE PROGRAM. But... that's even more frustrating for everyone! People who idle can no longer do other things on their computer whilst idling. People who don't idle see their server lists clogged up with idling servers. IT'S A LOSE-LOSE SITUATION.

In summary: Valve, you have released a flawed system, as a result of your own incompetence. Now you are punishing the community for your mistake by forcing idlers to waste CPU resources on running the game to idle and non idlers to wade through seas of idle servers to find a real server.

Valve, you are becoming something you never were. In the past, you only punished hackers - and rightly so. They harmed the community and made the game frustrating. But idling? Idling hurts no one (except, perhaps, Valve's ego). Idling is responding to an incentive. It's like punishing a donkey for moving when you wave a carrot in its face.

The only way I can see Valve defeating idling forever is to put as much effort into detecting idling as they do into detecting hacks. Imagine that. All that effort, for something so ludicrously trivial? Ridiculous - but the only thing they can do, having taken the path of punishment.

Here Valve, I'll give you something for free. How about you eliminate the incentive for idling completely. Make the system so that every 24 hours, the system rolls for every owner of TF2. The percentage chance of receiving a hat would be whatever it is now, skewed to take into account 1 roll per day. There - no need for idling, and you still keep your random system.

Please Valve, don't let pride get in the way of your judgement. No one will think badly of you if you change your mind and opt for a better solution. But I assure you, if you carry on with this ludicrous idea of punishing your community, then your reputation WILL be tarnished. Not a lot, but it would still be damaged. And that would truly be a sad thing to happen.

Thanks for reading.

TL;DR: If you can't be bothered to read, don't bother replying.


P.S. I'm simply going to ignore any posts along the lines of "ha, you lost your hats." Yes, I stand to lose half of my hats. No, it's not that big a deal to me. This thread isn't a "don't take my hats please" thread. I'm concerned with the fact that in doing this Valve are opting for a flawed system, but forcing it through with threats - rather than listening to what the community actually want, like they used to.


Edit: I think this post sums up the situation quite nicely.

Originally Posted by daggity

I'm sure glad Valve came up with a terrible solution to a non-existent problem (Idlers), instead of an actual solution to a very annoying problem (Random drop system).

Edit 2: Due to the overwhelmingly positive response here I've emailed this thread to Robin Walker. Let's hope we get a response.

Edit 3: Some new arguments against Valve's measure.

One of the main arguments I've seen for Valve's actions and against the idlers is that the EULA that we agree to to play the game prohibits the use of third party applications, so the warning was there.

This argument is flawed. Firstly, the idler never modified the HL2.exe - it was a seperate program (so it's not a 'hack' as some people have been describing it.) Drunken_F00l used the tools provided in the SDK to make the idler, so it's not even completely third party.
Secondly, there are many third party applications (some of which provide real in game advantages - unlike the idler, and some which are useful but confer no advantage (like the idler.)) I'll list a few here. SAM - this allows you to unlock all the achievements at the click of a button. Giving you ALL the unlocks instantly. HLSS - this allows you to play mp3s over voice comms.
The one I'd most like to focus on is Ventrilo, since this has many parallels with the idler.
Ventrilo, for those of you that don't know, is a private service which allows you to communicate in real time with people connected to the same (privately owned)Ventrilo server as you. The sound quality is far superior to the in game voice comms, and there is usually no delay between speaking and your teammates hearing. The main advantage conferred by Ventrilo is that dead players can carry on talking with their team through Vent, whereas on a Vanilla TF2 server, dead players are muted (so that you can't call out locations of Spies once you've been killed by one, etc.)

Now, why do I mention vent as a parallel to the idler? Well, they're both third party program that allow you to do something already present in game more efficiently.

The idler simulates being connected to a server. You receive items at exactly the same rate as people connected to real TF2 servers, without actually running TF2.

Ventrilo allows you to talk with your teammates more efficiently, (no 1 second delay) without using the in game voice comms.

Now, the summary - by the same logic that says idlers got what they deserved, you could argue that anyone who has used ventrilo in conjunction with TF2 should be muted for a week, and permanently if they ever use it again.

In fact, the argument for banning Ventrilo is stronger than the argument for banning the idler, since Ventrilo confers a tangible ingame advantage (talking to your teammates whilst dead), which the idler doesn't offer - since it is exactly the same as idling on a real server (which is legal). In simpler terms, the idler gives exactly the same benefits as idling in achievement_idle, whereas Vent gives you an advantage over people who use in game voice comms.

So that is why this was unexpected. The EULA clause concerning third party apps has never been applied to any of the many third party apps (except hacks, but the idler was never a hack) - so we should not have been expected to predict Valve's actions concerning the idler.

That is why we should have been given a warning. If Valve suddenly muted everyone who had used Vent, with no prior warning, and threatened to ban them if they ever used Vent again, you'd be shocked, wouldn't you? But I could use exactly the same arguments as the non idlers to point out that, although Valve have never had a stance on Vent before, the EULA clearly states that using it is a bannable offense.

I hope this made sense, and I hope it makes Valve and the non idlers see sense.

Edit 4:
I'm seeing a lot of recurring arguments being used, so I'd like to clear those up once and for all.

Why don't/didn't you just play the game?

We didn't spend the whole 4 months twiddling our thumbs and watching the steamstats screen. We simply played for as long as we wanted, then left steamstats on for the rest of the day, to maximise our chances of getting the items we wanted.

It's only a few hats, why the fuss?

\/ READ THIS BIT.
This was never about the lost hats. I, and the vast majority of the idlers, aren't in tears at the loss of the hats.

This is about the way Valve handled the whole situation. Why didn't they opt for the easy option of replying to Drunken_F00l and telling him to shut the idler down? Why didn't they take note of the hundreds of threads asking whether the idler was legal or not, and reply in the form of a blog post? Why didn't they make their position clear earlier on? Why didn't they implement a better system - one where idling isn't necessary, instead of propping this flawed one up with threats and punishment?
/\ READ THIS BIT.
We want answers to those questions, and since Valve hasn't provided any, we'll carry on posting.

We also feel let down by Valve. We're paying customers, the same as everyone else, yet we've been called immoral cheaters, and, in an unrelated interview, crybabies.

More to the point, Valve employees have been caught cheating themselves, by giving themselves godlike weapons and then steamrolling public servers with them. Who are the real cheaters?

We want answers. We want an apology. We don't care about the hats.



I trust I've tied up those two points in a satisfactory manner. Unless anyone wants to contest either of those replies I've given, I'm going to ignore any posts that use those arguments, and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Those sorts of posts don't advance this discussion in any meaningful way.

Edit 5: Anyone who thinks that Valve is utterly blameless and that idling is the inherently dishonest community's fault should read this excellent post by MistahFixIt.

Edit 6:

Originally Posted by Blendarus

I find it fascinating that some of you still think it's about what the players did, and not about how Valve reacted.

Edit 7

Originally Posted by N-R, N-R

STEAM™ SUBSCRIBER AGREEMENT

Steam and the Steam Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Steam Software, other Valve products, or modifications thereof ("Cheats").

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

I think it's fairly clear from what Robin said that the idler did not provide an "unfair competitive advantage", thus, arguably, the EULA is not a valid argument.

Of course, Valve retain the clause which says they can consider anything they want a "cheat", but that still doesn't mean this wasn't a grey area, or that they shouldn't have made their position clear.

Edit 8:

Originally Posted by Blendarus

Ventrilo provides an in-game advantage over people without it and is fine, so it's not about any in-game advantage.

The backpack manager interfaces with Steam, sends arguably fake data, and that crap and is still fine, so it can't be that.

The idle servers have been declared fine, or at least fine enough to not be a big issue and to justify a reward over idlebotters, so it's not about idling.

So where's the issue? Why was the Idlebot punished?

[Melchiz]

Good post.

Valve has zero respect for paying customers. I've held that opinion for a long time, but recent events make it quite clear, no?

[slayerofmuffins]

As someone else has pointed out, it's equivalent to not posting any speed limits, putting up speed limit signs, then punishing anyone who went above that limit before the signs were put up.
Especially seeing as Robin Walker acknowledged that idling gives you the same chance of receiving a hat as playing.

[mauricioGON]

i mean its not like you earned those items

[TURBOSKILL]

Extremely well written, this sums up the point perfectly. I am sick and tired of people justifying the decisions Valve are making for no good reason, it's time to take a stand.

[Potato21]

I commend you for this article. You are absolutely right about the whole random system being flawed. Personally i lose no hats, but also lose the chance to get a free one. I must be terminally unlucky since after Idling and playing for what must be about 100 hours a week I only received about 15 random drops. Mostly blutsaugers.

Today and yesterday I'd venture I spent 14 hours playing on a variety of servers, having fun as usual, BUT NOT GETTING A SINGLE RANDOM DROP. If it was every 3 hours or so that'd be fine but the completely random route means those that suck at random chance will probably never get a single hat. Desperation leads to desperate measures which unfortunately means no hat for me.

To think, this could have been solved had they not released hats until they had a trading/crafting system

[Sniper_John_Uk]

ALL THIS WILL ACHIEVE IS TO FORCE IDLERS TO FREQUENT IDLE SERVERS RATHER THAN USE THE PROGRAM

Or they will simply get over it, and play normally (like sensible people). THEYRE JUST HATS.

[Sparrowsluck]

I'm surprised this thread isn't closed yet. I wonder how long you'll be able to have your opinion under Valves new regime.

[Melchiz]

Originally Posted by TURBOSKILL

Extremely well written, this sums up the point perfectly. I am sick and tired of people justifying the decisions Valve are making for no good reason, it's time to take a stand.

Well, if you really want to "take a stand" you should start by boycotting Valve and Steam. Valve makes a cut on all games sold on Steam. If you are looking for alternatives to Steam, consider:

Best: Impulse (similar to Steam's store, but the client doesn't not need to be open to play games)

Good: Gamers Gate (like Direct2Drive but less annoying store-based activation and better customer service)

Good: Good Old Games (GOG, for older titles, no DRM and great community)

Decent: Direct2Drive (a decent store with some annoying activation issues)

Best retail: Amazon (free shipping, no taxes, and box + manual; great support and the best pre-order pricing)

[sourceopidler]

moral high road...... >_>

[klaount]

I just don't like how they suddenly bring in the spotlight the idling "problem".
Who really cares about hats, idler or not, they do not affect gameplay so it's hardly a "cheat". I would prefer them working on the already mentioned solutions of crafting etc. instead on losing man-hours on deleting items.

[Genosidoh]

Originally Posted by Sniper_John_Uk

Or they will simply get over it, and play normally (like sensible people). THEYRE JUST HATS.

If you really believed the community was like this, achievement and idle servers should have never existed in the first place.

[UberNoobs]

If you use the achievement unlocker program you dont get banned, but valve feels that idling destroys the game.

Hacks and performance issues seem like a minor setback

[slayerofmuffins]

There's no need to overreact. All we need to do is show Valve, in this thread and others, that this isn't what the community wants. Show them we want a system where you shouldn't feel the need to idle, rather than one where idling is tempting, but forbidden.

[drketrnl]

Originally Posted by mauricioGON

i mean its not like you earned those items

... YOU DON'T 'EARN' ITEMS OR HATS ANYWAYS, it's a random system.