dod 1.3 values in source

andy836 · 10-12-2009, 11:44 AM

as it says weapon load outs and damage values same as in 1.3 but on source engine. Be kinda fun to see how it plays balance wise. It's an east coast NA server

here's the ip 70.167.149.20:27015

Col.Krust · 10-12-2009, 02:21 PM

i am game. though I think the garand would need a slower rate of fire and more recoil...but what do I know.

andy836 · 10-12-2009, 08:10 PM

well played about 5 maps worth tonight and tbh, still loads of issues with hitreg. And I'm talking crouched, taking your time point blank shots to the back not hitting or just plain old going right through the player model. But it was good when the shots hit

Game650 · 10-12-2009, 10:41 PM

ROF for the garand in source is much higher than 1.3, so it's not you.

and dods seems to have problems with hitreg in general, I'll check it out. Is it a plugin mod that changed these values or a server config?

andy836 · 10-13-2009, 12:32 AM

just sourcemod, meta mod and dod nostalgia and a custom damage plugin

Col.Krust · 10-13-2009, 02:15 AM

yep I have played dod since early beta and played competitively in 3.1b thru 1.3. the rifles were well balanced with each other then. my only complaint would be the return of the one hit anywhere kar. But maybe that is not so bad.

coqRapide · 10-13-2009, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Col.Krust

yep I have played dod since early beta and played competitively in 3.1b thru 1.3. the rifles were well balanced with each other then. my only complaint would be the return of the one hit anywhere kar. But maybe that is not so bad.

If hit reg was even somewhat competent, or there were no such things as magical kevlar arms, we woulnd't need a one hit kar.. but as it stands, I would vote for the one hit kar anywhere.

If only I were somehow in charge of a league in which to implement that . . .

andy836 · 10-13-2009, 05:15 AM

well you could just have the server run with just the damage values of 1.3???? I'd try to join a team then

Col.Krust · 10-13-2009, 01:14 PM

well my point has always the game needs to be heavily playtested to see what works and is balanced.

they never put on the table what I thought should be tried. a kar that didnt kill with an extremity shot ( with a increased accuracy over the current kar) and a garand which killed on a chest or head shot and had higher recoil, a 1.3 speed semi-auto, and a bit less accurate than the kar. (the smgs could be a bit more accurate, the bar and stg could have their old damage values (the big clip of the one balancing for the higher damage of the other(maybe even up the bar recoil a tad))

I thought in old dod the kar and garand were reasonably balanced. but in general in kar vs other weapon face offs people felt the kar was over powered. this, I think could make both parties happy if play tested and tweaked correctly.

Game650 · 10-13-2009, 04:47 PM

yeah I always felt weapon values in 1.3 were so well done and it's one of the main reasons I don't like source. I felt that the Kar is fine, you just need to bait their shots and move in at the right times. I wouldn't mind if leg/arm shots only did 83, but anywhere else should be fatal, it uses the same ammunition as the k98 sniper which is a one shot everywhere but the leg/arm so that doesn't make sense one bit.

Frontliner · 10-15-2009, 08:01 AM

Since I was not playtesting on the server I cant mention what`s in there but from my point of view the following should be in
(I know many do not agree with my opinion but I like to have the whole game
a)balanced between the classes as well as in terms of the same class of the enemy(Just look at Kar/Garand and STG/BAR as it is now!)
and
b)added a bit of realism in terms of dmg,reloading,accuracy and generally handling of the guns(Garand=Semiauto and not Garand=delayed semiauto)
and
c) make the game more based on skill than on having luck or randoming
I.) Benefit players that stand still!
II.) Have more recoil on crouch and prone positions:
right now the recoil is halved in crouch and quartered in prone
for example STG/BAR
Stance: Shots to do a 180:
Standing 36(5°)
Crouching 72(2.5°)
Prone 144(1.25°)

My suggestion would be(example: my bar(from the current m1 recoil in standing))
stance: Shots for a 180:
standing 45(4°)
crouching 67.5(3°)
proning 90(2°)

III.) Have less bullets spray "near" or "in" the crosshair, but this shall only happen(!) when the player is running with the weapon(!). This will avoid Mediums going rampage, and make the other 2 "big" classes more versatile, and more loved by starters

Kar98k: Some like it one-shot anywhere, I dont; If it is, give the Garand 120 dmg in chest to balance it. :P

MP40: not much to say; have it like in old-source, make it spray while running(and in a wide circle around the crosshair, maybe 2 shots out of 30 going somewhat "near" the crosshair, to avoid the run`n`gun style of play that is now)

STG44: current recoil is higher than the garand`s, which is bull♥♥♥♥. make it have like a 2.5-3 degree of screen per shot; increase the accuracy in semiauto pretty much, but decrease it a bit in terms of full auto; also like MP40 make it spray wider around the crosshair, the further the target is away while running; make the semi-auto semi-auto; keep the dmg like it`s always been.

ScopeKar98k: Have the same dmg value as the Kar98k, make scoping in a bit slower to avoid players going rampage with it in close quarters.

MG42: Needs moar recoil(11 shots to do a full 180 currently) or 30cal needs less.

Panzerschreck: Let it like it was since Source, maybe think of less ammo to avoid spamming.

Mauser C96: Pretty much like the MP40, just avoid having players to run`n`gun with this ♥♥♥♥ like now.

Garand: Seen from a realistic perpestive this should be the second deadliest gun on the field(Only topped by the STG44, MG`s dont count, as well as snipers): Nearly as accuarate as the 98, nearly as damaging as the 98, with a lighter recoil(not by much) but making the Kar look like ♥♥♥♥ with its semiauto-capability!
However I want to have it all -like I said above- balanced.
The current 60/80 dmg is fine to me, but from my point of view, the M1 needs
-More recoil
-Higher accuracy(make it nearly the same as the Kar`s)
-Semiauto

Tommy: Like the caMP40

BAR: old dmg value(read: 1.3 dmg value); higher accuracy compared to STG(whether you leave the Bar`s or the STG`s accuracy at the current level is your decision); slower reload(it`s a light MG); tweak the semi-auto to a semi-auto;
lower recoil compared to the rifles(it weights 20 pounds!), like above

Springfield: Like the ScopeKar

30cal: read MG42

Bazooka: read Panzerschreck

M1 Carbine: If the M1 Carbine had full-auto capability, a pistol grip, and a bit more of a dmging caliber and more ammo per magazine, it would be an assault rifle, so treat it like it would nearly be one, and not like a ♥♥♥♥ing SMG
workings on the carbine IMO:
dmg: 33.something/45
recoil: 2°-2.5°(dependent on the STG more or less)
accuracy: the current is fine, the new recoil will stop players from ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with it like they can do now.

pistols: like the other run`n`gun ♥♥♥♥, inaccurate overall, but dont let somebody hit something with it while he is running with it, with the target 15 yards away; keep the dmg, or it will kill nothing at all(which is not my purpose, but it should not be as ♥♥♥♥ing deadly as it is right now)

Game650 · 10-15-2009, 02:00 PM

#11 was pretty much correct.

Pistols need a tighter COF, they are too random to be of any use and they take ages to draw out and be of use to shoot.

Here are what my values would be:

Rifles:

K98: 120 damage anywhere on the body, 83 for lower leg, but leave 120 for arms since they are always in the way. Recoil can be a bit higher.

Garand: 90 anywhere on the body, 120 on high chest and head. Recoil should be increased, ROF should be lowered slightly.

K98 has advantage of doing more damage consistantly, but garand has high ROF and quick reload. Allowing players to bait kar shots and use their ammo to their advantage.

Supports:

STG44: 33-40 damage anywhere on the body, 120 on headshot, recoil should be lowered, rate of fire should be increased. Lower reload speed slightly.

BAR: 60 damage anywhere on body, 120 on headshot, 33 to lower leg, leave arms 60 damage. Increase recoil, increase COF and lower reload speed.

like the K98 for axis, the allies have the advantage in the autos with the BAR. It is more powerful and is like a garand. It's drawbacks are low ammunition per clip and low reload speed. Also it's ROF is slower than STG but BAR has more damage, more recoil and more accuracy. These trade offs between the supports were the most balanced weapons in 1.3.

Assaults:

MP40: 30 damage anywhere on the body, 120 on headshot, recoil should be slightly lower than thompson. The COF, and recoil should be greatly higher when moving.

Thompson: Like MP40 but with key differences. Recoil is slightly higher than MP40, but has a slightly higher ROF. The COF, and recoil should be greatly higher when moving.

small differences that don't make them so much clones anymore.

Pistols:

Luger: Increase COF, increase recoil. 30 damage anywhere on body, 120 on headshot. ROF is slightly higher than Colt.

Colt: Increase COF, increase recoil. 33 damage anywhere on body, 120 on headshot. ROF is lower than Luger.

Adds some differences between the pistols, Luger has more bullets and can be fired faster but Colt has more damage.

Other:

Carbine: 30 damage anywhere on the body, 120 on headshot. Increase ROF, lessen COF slightly, raise recoil slightly.

C96: keep it the same, maybe lower ROF slightly, it's too fast. Also lower COF and raise recoil.

Carbine should have a faster ROF depending on how fast your fingers are, it also shouldn't be so accurate for being a secondary weapon to the rocket. C96 should also have less COF and recoil should be much higher for how many bullets it spews out.

for reference:

COF = Cone of Fire, the spread of bullets.
ROF = Rate of Fire, the speed of how fast weapons can fire.

These are just my thoughts, I wonder if they can be implemented in plugins, it would be nice to see recoil, ROF and COF changes as well as damage changes in these servers.

Frontliner · 10-15-2009, 02:37 PM

err game, I like you for sharing some of my opinions, but tbh Ihave concerns about yours
a) the dmg seems pretty random to me, like 33/40 for STG.
The game needs just (the)1 value for the (chest)damage, the rest is automatically calculated by a very complex algorithm, that took more time to implement than making TF2`s hats.
(base dmg lowered by 25%=dmg on the limbs; base dmg incrases by 150%= dmg on headshot)
33/40 is a impossible dmg value for a single gun, and also the dmg for the smgs is 30/40, so proposing the first for the STG is like something for the COD:WAW forums.
b) lowered ROF for the M1?
this is DOD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UYV1LCPh3Y
this is realistic and possible for anyone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fny4F...eature=related
this is FAST:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBQrt...eature=related

thats all to you Game

coqRapide · 10-15-2009, 02:48 PM

game is just quoting 1.3 values.

besides, dods isnt about realism, its about balance.

Game650 · 10-15-2009, 03:02 PM

1.3 was very balanced, and the ROF for the garand was almost half that of what it is in source. I'm not bashing you, but if you played 1.3 you would know this and raising the ROF on the garand would just make it over powered. ROF is fine as it is now, lowering it would be fine but raising it would be stupid. I'm not quoting values here, I could say lower ROF by a certain percentage, but I wouldn't actually know how that would translate in game, so I just said "lower slightly".

I also said 33/40, meaning it could be either damage value, either one would be fine as that would mean 3 shots would be death. Consistent values would be nice, and the inconsistency of this game is one of the things that bothers me most. I'll find I do 88 in 3 hits with a BAR when 3 hits should be fatal. I know that it's a result of Kevlar arms, but that inconsistency comes from aiming at chest and I get arms instead.

I understand your perspective but realism isn't what this game needs, it needs balance.

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10-12-2009, 11:44 AM	#1
andy836 Join Date: Sep 2007 Reputation: 0 Posts: 121	dod 1.3 values in source as it says weapon load outs and damage values same as in 1.3 but on source engine. Be kinda fun to see how it plays balance wise. It's an east coast NA server here's the ip 70.167.149.20:27015

10-12-2009, 02:21 PM	#2
Col.Krust Join Date: Aug 2007 Reputation: 15 Posts: 768	i am game. though I think the garand would need a slower rate of fire and more recoil...but what do I know.

10-12-2009, 08:10 PM	#3
andy836 Join Date: Sep 2007 Reputation: 0 Posts: 121	well played about 5 maps worth tonight and tbh, still loads of issues with hitreg. And I'm talking crouched, taking your time point blank shots to the back not hitting or just plain old going right through the player model. But it was good when the shots hit

10-12-2009, 10:41 PM	#4
Game650 Join Date: Aug 2007 Reputation: 6 Posts: 716	ROF for the garand in source is much higher than 1.3, so it's not you. and dods seems to have problems with hitreg in general, I'll check it out. Is it a plugin mod that changed these values or a server config?

10-13-2009, 12:32 AM	#5
andy836 Join Date: Sep 2007 Reputation: 0 Posts: 121	just sourcemod, meta mod and dod nostalgia and a custom damage plugin

10-13-2009, 02:15 AM	#6
Col.Krust Join Date: Aug 2007 Reputation: 15 Posts: 768	yep I have played dod since early beta and played competitively in 3.1b thru 1.3. the rifles were well balanced with each other then. my only complaint would be the return of the one hit anywhere kar. But maybe that is not so bad.

10-13-2009, 05:15 AM	#8
andy836 Join Date: Sep 2007 Reputation: 0 Posts: 121	well you could just have the server run with just the damage values of 1.3???? I'd try to join a team then

10-13-2009, 01:14 PM	#9
Col.Krust Join Date: Aug 2007 Reputation: 15 Posts: 768	well my point has always the game needs to be heavily playtested to see what works and is balanced. they never put on the table what I thought should be tried. a kar that didnt kill with an extremity shot ( with a increased accuracy over the current kar) and a garand which killed on a chest or head shot and had higher recoil, a 1.3 speed semi-auto, and a bit less accurate than the kar. (the smgs could be a bit more accurate, the bar and stg could have their old damage values (the big clip of the one balancing for the higher damage of the other(maybe even up the bar recoil a tad)) I thought in old dod the kar and garand were reasonably balanced. but in general in kar vs other weapon face offs people felt the kar was over powered. this, I think could make both parties happy if play tested and tweaked correctly.

10-13-2009, 04:47 PM	#10
Game650 Join Date: Aug 2007 Reputation: 6 Posts: 716	yeah I always felt weapon values in 1.3 were so well done and it's one of the main reasons I don't like source. I felt that the Kar is fine, you just need to bait their shots and move in at the right times. I wouldn't mind if leg/arm shots only did 83, but anywhere else should be fatal, it uses the same ammunition as the k98 sniper which is a one shot everywhere but the leg/arm so that doesn't make sense one bit.

10-15-2009, 08:01 AM	#11
Frontliner Join Date: May 2008 Reputation: 7 Posts: 64	Since I was not playtesting on the server I cant mention what`s in there but from my point of view the following should be in (I know many do not agree with my opinion but I like to have the whole game a)balanced between the classes as well as in terms of the same class of the enemy(Just look at Kar/Garand and STG/BAR as it is now!) and b)added a bit of realism in terms of dmg,reloading,accuracy and generally handling of the guns(Garand=Semiauto and not Garand=delayed semiauto) and c) make the game more based on skill than on having luck or randoming I.) Benefit players that stand still! II.) Have more recoil on crouch and prone positions: right now the recoil is halved in crouch and quartered in prone for example STG/BAR Stance: Shots to do a 180: Standing 36(5°) Crouching 72(2.5°) Prone 144(1.25°) My suggestion would be(example: my bar(from the current m1 recoil in standing)) stance: Shots for a 180: standing 45(4°) crouching 67.5(3°) proning 90(2°) III.) Have less bullets spray "near" or "in" the crosshair, but this shall only happen(!) when the player is running with the weapon(!). This will avoid Mediums going rampage, and make the other 2 "big" classes more versatile, and more loved by starters Kar98k: Some like it one-shot anywhere, I dont; If it is, give the Garand 120 dmg in chest to balance it. :P MP40: not much to say; have it like in old-source, make it spray while running(and in a wide circle around the crosshair, maybe 2 shots out of 30 going somewhat "near" the crosshair, to avoid the run`n`gun style of play that is now) STG44: current recoil is higher than the garand`s, which is bull♥♥♥♥. make it have like a 2.5-3 degree of screen per shot; increase the accuracy in semiauto pretty much, but decrease it a bit in terms of full auto; also like MP40 make it spray wider around the crosshair, the further the target is away while running; make the semi-auto semi-auto; keep the dmg like it`s always been. ScopeKar98k: Have the same dmg value as the Kar98k, make scoping in a bit slower to avoid players going rampage with it in close quarters. MG42: Needs moar recoil(11 shots to do a full 180 currently) or 30cal needs less. Panzerschreck: Let it like it was since Source, maybe think of less ammo to avoid spamming. Mauser C96: Pretty much like the MP40, just avoid having players to run`n`gun with this ♥♥♥♥ like now. Garand: Seen from a realistic perpestive this should be the second deadliest gun on the field(Only topped by the STG44, MG`s dont count, as well as snipers): Nearly as accuarate as the 98, nearly as damaging as the 98, with a lighter recoil(not by much) but making the Kar look like ♥♥♥♥ with its semiauto-capability! However I want to have it all -like I said above- balanced. The current 60/80 dmg is fine to me, but from my point of view, the M1 needs -More recoil -Higher accuracy(make it nearly the same as the Kar`s) -Semiauto Tommy: Like the caMP40 BAR: old dmg value(read: 1.3 dmg value); higher accuracy compared to STG(whether you leave the Bar`s or the STG`s accuracy at the current level is your decision); slower reload(it`s a light MG); tweak the semi-auto to a semi-auto; lower recoil compared to the rifles(it weights 20 pounds!), like above Springfield: Like the ScopeKar 30cal: read MG42 Bazooka: read Panzerschreck M1 Carbine: If the M1 Carbine had full-auto capability, a pistol grip, and a bit more of a dmging caliber and more ammo per magazine, it would be an assault rifle, so treat it like it would nearly be one, and not like a ♥♥♥♥ing SMG workings on the carbine IMO: dmg: 33.something/45 recoil: 2°-2.5°(dependent on the STG more or less) accuracy: the current is fine, the new recoil will stop players from ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with it like they can do now. pistols: like the other run`n`gun ♥♥♥♥, inaccurate overall, but dont let somebody hit something with it while he is running with it, with the target 15 yards away; keep the dmg, or it will kill nothing at all(which is not my purpose, but it should not be as ♥♥♥♥ing deadly as it is right now)

10-15-2009, 02:00 PM	#12
Game650 Join Date: Aug 2007 Reputation: 6 Posts: 716	#11 was pretty much correct. Pistols need a tighter COF, they are too random to be of any use and they take ages to draw out and be of use to shoot. Here are what my values would be: Rifles: K98: 120 damage anywhere on the body, 83 for lower leg, but leave 120 for arms since they are always in the way. Recoil can be a bit higher. Garand: 90 anywhere on the body, 120 on high chest and head. Recoil should be increased, ROF should be lowered slightly. K98 has advantage of doing more damage consistantly, but garand has high ROF and quick reload. Allowing players to bait kar shots and use their ammo to their advantage. Supports: STG44: 33-40 damage anywhere on the body, 120 on headshot, recoil should be lowered, rate of fire should be increased. Lower reload speed slightly. BAR: 60 damage anywhere on body, 120 on headshot, 33 to lower leg, leave arms 60 damage. Increase recoil, increase COF and lower reload speed. like the K98 for axis, the allies have the advantage in the autos with the BAR. It is more powerful and is like a garand. It's drawbacks are low ammunition per clip and low reload speed. Also it's ROF is slower than STG but BAR has more damage, more recoil and more accuracy. These trade offs between the supports were the most balanced weapons in 1.3. Assaults: MP40: 30 damage anywhere on the body, 120 on headshot, recoil should be slightly lower than thompson. The COF, and recoil should be greatly higher when moving. Thompson: Like MP40 but with key differences. Recoil is slightly higher than MP40, but has a slightly higher ROF. The COF, and recoil should be greatly higher when moving. small differences that don't make them so much clones anymore. Pistols: Luger: Increase COF, increase recoil. 30 damage anywhere on body, 120 on headshot. ROF is slightly higher than Colt. Colt: Increase COF, increase recoil. 33 damage anywhere on body, 120 on headshot. ROF is lower than Luger. Adds some differences between the pistols, Luger has more bullets and can be fired faster but Colt has more damage. Other: Carbine: 30 damage anywhere on the body, 120 on headshot. Increase ROF, lessen COF slightly, raise recoil slightly. C96: keep it the same, maybe lower ROF slightly, it's too fast. Also lower COF and raise recoil. Carbine should have a faster ROF depending on how fast your fingers are, it also shouldn't be so accurate for being a secondary weapon to the rocket. C96 should also have less COF and recoil should be much higher for how many bullets it spews out. for reference: COF = Cone of Fire, the spread of bullets. ROF = Rate of Fire, the speed of how fast weapons can fire. These are just my thoughts, I wonder if they can be implemented in plugins, it would be nice to see recoil, ROF and COF changes as well as damage changes in these servers.

10-15-2009, 02:37 PM	#13
Frontliner Join Date: May 2008 Reputation: 7 Posts: 64	err game, I like you for sharing some of my opinions, but tbh Ihave concerns about yours a) the dmg seems pretty random to me, like 33/40 for STG. The game needs just (the)1 value for the (chest)damage, the rest is automatically calculated by a very complex algorithm, that took more time to implement than making TF2`s hats. (base dmg lowered by 25%=dmg on the limbs; base dmg incrases by 150%= dmg on headshot) 33/40 is a impossible dmg value for a single gun, and also the dmg for the smgs is 30/40, so proposing the first for the STG is like something for the COD:WAW forums. b) lowered ROF for the M1? this is DOD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UYV1LCPh3Y this is realistic and possible for anyone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fny4F...eature=related this is FAST: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBQrt...eature=related thats all to you Game

10-15-2009, 02:48 PM	#14
coqRapide Join Date: Sep 2007 Reputation: 105 Posts: 1,589	game is just quoting 1.3 values. besides, dods isnt about realism, its about balance.

10-15-2009, 03:02 PM	#15
Game650 Join Date: Aug 2007 Reputation: 6 Posts: 716	1.3 was very balanced, and the ROF for the garand was almost half that of what it is in source. I'm not bashing you, but if you played 1.3 you would know this and raising the ROF on the garand would just make it over powered. ROF is fine as it is now, lowering it would be fine but raising it would be stupid. I'm not quoting values here, I could say lower ROF by a certain percentage, but I wouldn't actually know how that would translate in game, so I just said "lower slightly". I also said 33/40, meaning it could be either damage value, either one would be fine as that would mean 3 shots would be death. Consistent values would be nice, and the inconsistency of this game is one of the things that bothers me most. I'll find I do 88 in 3 hits with a BAR when 3 hits should be fatal. I know that it's a result of Kevlar arms, but that inconsistency comes from aiming at chest and I get arms instead. I understand your perspective but realism isn't what this game needs, it needs balance.